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Well, those chemicals are said to have hell of a smell, demonic, demon’s fart, etc. It might not be quite right to name it after demons… after all Tom still find nasty smells to be nasty, but no one can contest their malodorous powers.
I like back stories in very small amounts becuase a character’s behaviour and thought process often reveal much of their past.
Many books I have read have back stories that are too obstructive. There are even books out there that are mostly backstories and very little actual story. I also quite suspect that backstories are used by many books to cover up the lack of actual story/plot of their book.
Still it might be interesting to know some adventures the characters have in the past.
From what I remember starship shields aren’t really aerodynamic either, shaped like ellipsoid if I remember correctly after all there is no air in space. Those artificial satelites circling the earth for example would break apart if they travel in air for even moderate speed.
Also domes aren’t aerodynamic too.
JMBT: I’m only following where a misinformation would lead. Here the misinfo is Rupert and Tom’s relationship and from what I know about demonic children.
And hey Tizzy unfair, that info about demon children and power levels are not in the book or in this site.
Also to make such scale you need to know the weakest and the strongest possible to mark the lowest and the highest end of the scale like the Mohs scale of mineral hardness. For the Mohs scale the softest is talc with hardness scale of 1, hardest is diamond with hardness scale of 10. Now the problem is, it is mentioned that the level scale of demon power is man made, like the Mohs scale. Now how do these humans know the strogest possible in terms of demonic strength for them to make 6 the top? Where is the Mohs’ diamond?
Not to mention, many scales that has been used are often adjusted and extended. The Mohs scale for example tops at 10 (diamond), but then there are materials that are harder than diamonds (like hyperdiamonds) and thus they are out of bounds in the Mohs scale.
Well, there are demons in Astlan even when they are there only part of the time. Also some demons like Exador actually do live there and make a living there. It would not be far off to assume that there are other demons like Exador who live there.
Well, it is still unopened, so useless. Very much like water in a locked safe is useless for a thirsty man who can’t open it.
Well. demim isn’t that rough-demon-back-and-butt proof especially when those butts can take a sword strike without getting scratched… are your butts harder than diamonds? I even think that when you sit on a solid diamond chair, it would get scratched. Well, that makes demon hide a potentially useful substance!
[quote]That’s almost as useful as Lenamare’s book.[/quote]
Tizzy. How can it be useful when it can’t be opened? Not to mention, the contents is a mystery… or it is not a mystery to you? You writen it or something?
Oh no. I’m feeling that things are just rationalized away.
And you know alcohol easily evaporates right? Such a thing in Abyss wouldn’t be staying liquid for long. Not to mention, its flamable nature doesn’t lend it to easy storage in such a hellish world.
As for constant archetectural changes, that is quite natural. Buildings build now has different style from buildings build say twenty years ago, and they look certainly very different from buildings made a century ago. Also, building are constantly brought down and new building build up. The constant changes of architectureisn’t really unusual even even only mundane humans live there.
As for Astlan:
-It is not only the picture, the technology in the writing is also inconsistent.
-That is not how it appears in the book. The ‘magical technology’ might be advanced in a way, but eveything not magical is often very primitive… well, not really, the technology is, as I say, very incoherrent.
The mistake is because the book doesn’t make any consistent structure of the technogy Astlan have. We have some very old tech like castles, wagons, sail powered ships, candles, plated armor, swords, arrows, brazier and what not. There are lot of elements that give the impression of the very very low tech, the plated armors especially scream medieval Europe.
The magic technologies might be what we way advanced, but then it is magic. Very short communication magic for example wouldn’t be very magical, it is just stupid. Other magical communication is also typical fare in magic. A magical carpet still uses a rather old tech carpet, and magic carpets are very ancient technology if arabian nights is to be referenced. And dragons isn’t technology.
You know, magic. You can’t just compare say plastic surgery with shapeshifting, or surgical stitches to magic healing. You just can’t!
As for stealing ideas, why don’t they steal the more useful ones? Why don’t they steal concrete? Guns? Artificial lighting? Canning? Perfect binding (book)? Ballpoint pen? Paint? Plastic? Coca-cola?….. And there is almost no indications of any advanced non magical technology used massively. Only Lenamare, it seems, know about nuclear bombs impressing other wizzards, for example.
As for demons, the problem is demons isn’t very cooperative. Any big idea require a large amount of cooperation for it to bear fruit or materialize. How people and years does it take for us to develop internet technology? How many years does it take for us to develop technology for high rise buildings? If you study the history of such things you wil know.
Now demons are much more like uncontrolled teenagers or entitled oligarchs steeped in hedonism rather than very deciplined people and organizations who devote themselves to study and creation. I don’t really expect a Plato from any of them. Or an Einstien. Or an Edison. I’ll probably never see any Bell’s laboratories there. Or NASA. So even if one of the demons have the idea or knowledge, it probably won’t be developed and shared. It would actually just stagnate.
Bookbinding has been the same for centuries. You might have mean Bookmaking. Very early books, the pages are handwritten. You will probably imagine how long it would take if you write a thousand page book with pen and paper alone? Bookbinding is also done by hand. And so is tanning leather, cutting pages, making paper, cutting paper, mixing ink, preparing the pen,….. a monk would spend his entire lifetime just to make a copy of the Bible. Now we have machines to do many of these. There is a machine that binds the book, makes ink, makes paper, cuts paper, print the pages, creates the cover, … . That is the technology I meant. All of those contributed so that an affordable book is possible. Without them, only the extremely rich could afford a book.
And well, I’m not asking about how Lenamare get his riches. Being a powerful enough wizzard is reason enough.
Maou, I can’t really see demons having that very high amount of cooperation but the possibilities of that tactic is really astounding. I just doubt it would ever happen. Magic using demons are high level demons (level 4 +) and they just don’t seem to be creatures who would share their mana with others. Even partnership like Ramses, Exador and Bess have are rare and as we see isn’t very stable with them thinking about getting rid of the other all the time.
No, the possibility of demons sharing mana is just too remote.
Outliers, could mean almost anything. Swingers, Emos, Nerds, Furries, Sociopaths, Serial Kilers,… and outlier /= skilled in magic. Nope, it is just not.
Also if there are only a few ouliers, few of these outliers would actually fall to the skilled category. Then from the skilled category, only a few would have the skill of the hidden branch of magic (it is hidden afterall). They are essentially an outlier of an outlier. and since the number of demons (who could use magic) isn’t exacly that big it would not surprise me if the number of demons who know this hidden branch is only of single digits. I especially favor the digit 1.
And for search for something new, that doesn’t mean that they would delve in magic. How about you? Would you delve in computer programming, or learn to make a bobbin lace, or learn the art of bonsai, or write a novel becuase you have nothing else to do?
The truth is, the person who delve in this things don’t do it because they bored or have nothing else to do. They do it becuase they love doing it (or sometimes out of necessity). Edison doesn’t constantly invent things for having nothing else to do, he do it becuase he love to invent. Linus Torvalds doesn’t develop the linux kernel becuase he is bored, its because his passio for programming.
And a, also, as I say, it is Tizzy who says that demons are slothful. If he says it, then it is fact, I guess. You are actually present in that discussion, remember?
Eccentric doesn’t mean innovative, intelligent or creative. A man who likes to wear pantyhose might be eccentric but I would never expect that man to be an Einstein because of that. Please don’t mistake being different from being a genuis or something.
You are also misinterpretin life a bit. There are bad people everywhere, from school bullies to serial killers. Did anybody killed them long ago? If you asked me, they lived very very long lives than their victims. And if you are really counting of bad qualities, why Tizzy? Those archedemons and demon princesses should have to be several times badder that Tizzy. Why not ask me why nobody seems to killed them long ago.
“Ones personality is shaped by their actions, so if a person devoted years or decades to self improvement in matters martial, intellectual, and arcane, they might just continue to do so later.” – While this statement is generaly true, it isn’t in many cases. This especially doesn’t work in what we call world shattering events. For example, do you think the survivors of the Nazi Haulocaust remained the same person after they are freed? Or how about a woman who is raped? A person who is tortured? A man who lost his arms and legs? A man who learned he is sick with brain cancer? etc. Now at the demons, shouldn’t getting enslaved and thrust into a strange alien world not a world shattering event for anybody? Would you really stay the same person as before after being enslaved and tortured for hundreds of years? If it was me, I doupt that I can keep myself from becoming a monster in this situation.
While our actions is a strong force in the development of our personality, our surroundings also is as strong, if not stronger, force that shapes us. After all, our personality can’t exist vacuum.
@lume:
Thanks for bearing my rudeness and hot headedness. I’ve been inconsiderate.
Well, I’ve read what you writen. Quite long!
First though, the maleability of the Courts. There might be a more simpler explanation. They are demons. They are strong, powerful, and could just steal materials anywhere. They number of these demons could do a lot of renovaton in a moment. It might not be because the area is maleable because of concentration of magic. It is because these demons is powerful enough that they can rend a human body in moments, break walls and bend inches thick metals all with just their bare hands.
Af for Tom and the ship, I thought it was a fault! The wood should have chared when Tom become the living flame.
[quote]So maybe animus manipulation can make wood, plastic, alcohol, et cetera work in the Abyss by willpower or by the equivalent to willpower saying “Do not be affected”. [/quote]
However, Also connected to point #1, from Animus and Mana account in the book (after chapter 54 in my copy):
[quote]Animus is the “energy of life” it is roughly speaking the spirit or soul, the “living” part of all living creatures. All things that are alive have animus. Animus inundates every cell and the very molecular and genetic structure of living creatures. It is what separates organic compounds from living organisms. When a creature dies, the animus leaves the cells of its body and either disperses into the world around or in the case of high animus concentrations, may travel to other locations or planes.[/quote]
Animus is strongly associated with the living. Since wood, plastic, alcohol, et cetera aren’t living they can’t hold animus, unless object linked, and object links isn’t suppose to do what you say it do.
Point #2. In Animages and Animagic account (after chapter 64 in my copy):
[quote]Animages are individuals who use their minds to manipulate their own personal animus. Using their animus, they can manipulate mana, and hence the elements and the physical world around them. For all practical purposes, animages are individuals who simply need concentrate in the proper manner to achieve magic or spell-like effects. [/quote]
There are other part that indicates that manipulating animus requires constant mental effort and has no effect otherwise. Also in the same account:
[quote]Actually, this is a slight over simplification. In actual point of fact, an animage cannot simply will something to happen; rather he or she must manipulate his or her animus in such a way as to cause mana to behave in the desired manner.[/quote]
So they just can’t do the equivalent to willpower saying “Do not be affected” as you so stated. Also, higher up from your quote about Tom and the ship:
[quote]Maelen blinked suddenly realizing the problem. Edwyrd had so far contained his flame so that he did no damage to the deck or rail beneath and beside him. As he escalated his flame, that was no longer the case. Maelen shouted.[/quote]
There is quite a more banal explanation as to why. He might be containing the heat so that it won’t radiate and affect the wood.
Point #3 is moot as 1 an 2 isn’t viable.
Also as I stated before, there is very few demon who can manipulate mana and even rarer, it seems, one that manipulates animus like Tom.
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LampshadingYou said that the world has to be internally consistent. That is it must follow it own rules.
However you say:
[quote]I know that lampshading doesn’t explain it, but if we have Tom notice the fact, notice that it doesn’t matter, and then move on I’ll be fine and consider the issue resolved because it works within the framework of the story[/quote]
Lampshading doesn’t explain the inconsistency, the reason why, therefore the world is still inconsistent. Just because a character notice that it doesn’t matter doesn’t means its consistent. Also, the issue here do matters. It is quite prevalent in the book and has social significance.
Also you’re quote is quite incomplete and is taken out of context. The whole quote is:
[quote]Lampshade Hanging is the writers’ trick of dealing with any element of the story that threatens the audience’s Willing Suspension of Disbelief, whether a very implausible plot development, or a particularly blatant use of a trope, by calling attention to it and simply moving on. [/quote]
Also adding the second pharagraph:
[quote]The reason for this counter-intuitive strategy is two-fold. First, it assures the audience that the author is aware of the implausible plot development that just happened, and that they aren’t trying to slip something past the audience. Second, it assures the audience that the world of the story is like Real Life: what’s implausible for you or me is just as implausible for these characters, and just as likely to provoke an incredulous response. [/quote]
Also, your A and B interpretation doesn’t apply. Not A because the issue here is not about presentation. You can change how this things are presented, say not putting too much attention to it, or use purple prose; the inconsistency would still be there.
And not B because the issue is not about the character. It is about the objects found in the Abyss. Be the characters present or not, the issue remains.
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Fluid realityYour difinition of fluid reality is a bit different from mine.
Fluid reality comes from a very weird Quantum Theory regarding subatomic particles and their properties. On example, you know that they act like particles at some instance and waves in another. The theory is that they have two realities, one is the particle, and the other one is the wave. It settles into one of the two realities if we observed it and the nature of the observation dictates the outcome. And the outcomes are mighty weird.
Think of this like this, you have a box that contains candy you brought from a store. There are many possiblities of what candy it contains, based on what the store sells. In quantum theory, the box contains all realities, all the kind of the candies. The contents of the box only settle to one of the reality or candy once you open it and observe what is inside.
That is very weird. It means that any part of the our world we are not observing doesn’t settle into a reality, or is fluid. It is all the realities but none of the realities at the same time. It only settle down to single reality once we observe it. In another sense, the reality we know exist because we observe it. Once we are not observing it, it fails to exist.
Then there is this mystical notion like yours. Since observation dictates the outcome of reality, we can somehow harness our will to change reality.
Did anyone else get it? I don’t. It just so weird. It make my head hurt.
@Tizzy
I think it is in the [BB/] button before the spell check. It is listed there.
