Jenn’s Diary

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    Well, the engine is pushing the air and in return the air pushes the engine.

    As for the air shield. I assumed that it was not aerodynamic in desing because ‘shields’ really aren’t design to be aerodynamic. Shields are essentially flat pieces and I assume that the air shield is of the same form. My bad.

    I think I have to abandon that. It seems to be going nowhere. lol.

    There was the assumption that Tom was Rupert’s father. Rupert is a half demon, a forth order half dememon. And according to Antefalken, a half order demon is about half as powerful as their sire. Since Rupert is a forth order demon, then Tom is an eight order demon? No wonder Antefalken can’t get his head about it.

    An eight order demon is just inconcievable. To have too much power. Other demons would really be paranoid with that concept. LOL

    And if Tom is really an eight order demon. How will he appear in Talarius mirror?

    As for Tom studying magic, sometimes self study is a good thing. Many innovation and briliant ideas come from people who search knowledge by themselves. Einstien, Newton, Tesla, Graham Bell… these people are not hindered by preconcieved notions that they might get from teachers and tutors and ‘formal’ education. This lead this people to explore unseen avenues, roads no had had traveled by that lead them to amazing discoveries that are often ground breaking.


    I thought the power levels of demons are suppose to be a spectrum? I believe that there isn’t any accurate way to measure a demon’s true strength. There’s the mirror but that only provides the general area.

    I don’t think Tom’s a 8th order, look back at the beginning chapters when Lenamare’s school was being besiged and when Jenn was kidnapped.
    Tom handled several 3rd order Demons easily, i think there’s a HUGE difference between levels, which become less as demons get stronger.(i don’t count the Demon Princes into it because i think they are exceptions, they outstrip archedemons by a lot)

    Tom could (with some difficulty) decimate 2 third order demons and if you look back at Bess,Exador and that other guy, remember that they said about fourth order demons during the match between Tom and Talarius?
    They said that a normal fourth order wouldn’t have lasted long and that only really strong 4th orders could withstand the Rod(which Tom was perceived to be) Ramses spoke about the battle as if he considered it difficult but certainly doable, he even states that fifth order demons could definitely overcome the odds and win.


    On the Flying Carpets…I think it was our mental picture of a “shield”

    You were thinking of a “shield” like knight’s “shield” I was thinking more like force field or a starship’s shields. While I’ve never gotten out and looked, I presume that the Enterprise’s shields follow the shape of the ship. I’d get out and look, but as you know the Terran Empire is always at war, so every time I’ve been on the Enterprise, they’ve been busy attacking some one; typically a planetary uprising.

    It’s always a fun visit though; I really like Kirk, vicious captain; I’d love to have one of his remote death ray zapper’s. That bearded Vulcan first officer is a bit a squish but…

    So anyway, I see the air shields as being an aerodynamic dome or bubble…

    Yes the power levels are pretty huge. And vague. Because it’s not necessarily the size of your mana, but how you use it.

    Meaning it’s not unheard of for a very smart, less powerful demon to defeat a much larger, dumber or more experienced demon.

    In particular at the Courts, once you get beyond a certain level, shear cunning and chutzpah are often more useful than shear power.

    Also there is no 8th level. The level tops out at 6, it’s a sort of arbitrary scale, so presumably you could have two 6ths’ one of which has 2x the mana reserves. But then maybe the other is twice as efficient as using it.

    Also, again it’s a statistical average when creating babies. It’s not evenly half power for half demons. Some can be almost completely human, others can be almost completely demon and equally powerful. What would be unlikely (but not impossible) is for the child to be more powerful

    Why I add that last is because a half demon child might very well outlive and outgrow their parent demon. Maybe the parent isn’t as driven or dies younger or any number of reasons, but if we are talking out of the gate…the half demon will almost never be more powerful, and not often as powerful as the parent


    Their is 1 rank 7 demon who is missing, so the demon princes and archfiends are trying to establish power. Rank 6, 5, and maybe a few rank 4 greater demons. I know they compete for power due to references, but it is hard for me to guess if politics is done in boredom or for actual position. The abyss would be more interesting if demons could siphon power from each other. But no rank 8 exists, though on the continuum of power how quickly can one grow. I believe as animus is dictated by experience, somebody new to the world would grow more quickly than one who is familiar with it. Also somebody who always chooses to try new things would get more than somebody who does the same thing repetitively. But how would this translate and are their certain things a demon could do to increase this natural process?


    All very good questions.

    And all very hard to answer.

    I think one key point is that some demons do it for power, some for boredom. I am reasonably certain those at the very top of the heap do it out of boredom.

    In particular I know the Demon Princes love to give either encouraging or discouraging words to archdemons/greater demons and then watch them scramble. And half the time which they give is based on a die roll they secretly make. Ever notice how demon princes often have those little multi-fold screens on the table next to them. I think they are rolling dice behind them, just to see which way they want to screw with the rest of us.

    From my experience, the younger demons are usually doing it for power, it’s the older and most powerful that do it for fun. A great deal of the enjoyment comes from the fact that the younger ones think the Demon Princes take things as seriously as they do.

    Of course, that’s often said of the gods too.


    Aerodynamic is a relative term. I think the history of the automated mobile transport on the Earths demonstrates this.

    I am sure there is a scale for it.

    And the big thing to remember is that the demon scale is very unscientific, for the most part. It’s based on human(oid) observation/belief/lots of crazy shit.

    I talk about this in some other posts, great skill and luck can often defeat raw power, particularly if it’s badly used.

    And so the scale is pretty inexact. At least as far as [i]Wizards[/i] are concerned. They are the only ones, I really deal with. I don’t like the priestly types.

    And on that point: Talarius’ mirror seems to give something more exact and detailed. However, I have no idea how that thing works to be honest. it’s a Holy Artifact. Divinely Inspired or some such hand waving B.S. “We have to take it on [i]faith![/i]” bleh…

    So I have no idea how it interprets what it sees, whether it is just animus level, mana level, mana potential storage, skill, luck, whatever?

    I also have no idea of its accuracy. I wonder what it would see when it looked at me? :-k


    No its not relative. Old transportation doesn’t need to be aerodynamic because they travel slowwwwwly. Now jet planes and airplanes and racing cars are different matter. A sphere might work very well say for an hellicopter, which most doesn’t really travel very fast, but with jet planes, it is a disaster!

    And then you point at the problem. The demonic scale is unscientific based on belief and crazy shits. Then how can it be exact at the maximum and minimum? Mohs scale used a lot of studies and scientific stuff and still it proves inexact and nonlinear. the scale being based on inexact and crazy shits but result to an exact measure is preposterous.

    Talarius mirror also has this flaw. It is more refined, sensitive and accurate but it still follows the crazy shit based demon scale. If it was based on an inexact theory then it is also inexact.

    People faithfuly believe that the earth is flat and it is the center of the univers. Such belief and faith on such would bring ridicule today.


    Actually in the case of cars, earlier unaerodynamic vehicles could go just as fast or faster than modern ones.

    They just used a lot more fuel to do so. By the late 1920’s land speed records were being set at over 200 mph. Although admittedly these cars were actually rather cigar shaped and thus aerodynamic. In the 30’s they got up over 300 mph.

    In the 60’s 70’s there were a lot of very fast, very ugly and boxy vehicles…

    Actually I didn’t say there was a max or minimum…although I think the minimum would be zero.

    I would hypothesize, however as far as a maximum, at some point the demon would have to cross over into the god range….and thus not be a demon anymore…so there is probably some inflection point when one goes from demon to god…

    Assuming such a thing is possible…which, frankly, I rather doubt, you need a lot of worshipers for that and I don’t know the demigod thing then gets confusing…

    Well, Talarius thing could be relatively precise to a limit, at which point the mercury blows the top off. It probably has to have limits.

    Again, it is divinely based…I’d guess a god would know more about how this stuff works, after all, they go out of their way to figure out how to maximize mana and animus etc…


    Huh? Vehicles in the 60’s and 70’s are quite aerodynamic and the science of aerodynamics are quite well understood at that time.

    Aerodynamic design is very much abused in those times. Many appliances (like toasters and radios) are aerodynamic in design even when there is no need to be so.


    Hmm. It is just mysterious. Well, how TV works is mysterious for me as well (not really, but for many it is). The mirror is very unique in all the magical objects I’ve seen so far.

    Wait, are you implying that there isn’t really much of a difference between a God and a Demon? A Demon can be a God? Serious stuff there.


    Unless you count those extremely old ones. Old Cadillacs isn’t really that aerodynamic.

    Yes many cars are not aerodynamic even today (mini van, double decker bus) but then they aren’t race cars and thus aerodynamics aren’t really critical. Race cars (formula one, those cigar shaped cars), airplanes and jet planes are different beasts. Aerodynamics is critical to achieve great speed.

    Also, I don’t really say that non aerodynamic cars won’t travel fast or travel at all. I just mean that they aren’t efficient by creating drag and wasting lot of energy at high speeds.


    Okay, no demon gods. Well I was thinking it was just to much if that is possible.

    If a god has no worshipers? I think the god would still survive. The god should have some capability to produce mana bu its own I think and that should be suffice for survival. The god won’t have that much power though.

    Hmmm, the power dynamics of Gods are very different from Demons.


    Aerodynamics: yes, old cadillacs are what I am talking about, giant square boats. I think we are arguing about what we agree on…I’m a demon, that’s what I do.

    Of course, for total non-aerodynamic you have to go 60’s to 70’s Lincoln Continental with “Suicide Doors”

    Opening the rear doors at 75 mph–watch out!

    Yep, that’s what I’d guess, so maybe drop down to a demon, if Evil Deity….



    Could a god and their agents be beings whom draw energy from the faith of their followers or beings whom rely on energy externally to power themselves, while demons rely on power stored internally within themselves. This means demons would grow more slowly, but have more freedom in their actions without wizards, while gods would be restricted in that they would have to follow the expectations of their followers.

    So hypothetically what would happen if a god, one of their direct agents, or an avatar where cut off from the god pool? Demons are powered by their own individual souls, while gods by faith and emotion, so would Tom’s little trick possibly weaken the flow of power to the various gods. As such I expect a jam between the channeler and their power would be devastating to the divine. Pros and cons of both. External power isn’t totally in your control, can only use it for limited purposes, grows quickly, but dependent on the faith of people and their emotions. Internal grows slowly, complete control over power, much harder to separate power from internal source than an external source. Again an item that could separate one from external mana would be awesome to use against the divine, clerics, warlocks, and druids.


    Not all vehicles. yes they understood aerodynamics even in the 30’s and 40’s and frankly race cars from the turn of the century were shaped like cigars.

    But cars were often not very aerodynamic by today’s standards. Ever seen old Jeeps? Old Cadillacs? Compare them to the same models today.

    I’m not saying that a demon can become a god. I have no idea how to do that, but there is a huge quantum jump in energy between a demon or an avatar and a god. One presumes their might be a continuum.

    Anyway, gods need worshipers and draw their mana that way. I don’t know what a god without worshipers would be. Or if it would be a god.

    If no one believes in a god, does it die?


    Well, I don’t know about every eventuality, nor do I know much of anything about the gods but…

    Your basic assumption about gods vs demons is basically true; as far as I understand things. However, I would assume that gods have a tremendous amount of personal mana storage capacity on their own, god pools are just super mana pools into which they pour the excess that they can’t use right away; plus it’s a reserve that more than one person can draw on.

    I assume that avatars also have pretty good reserves. Plus the ability to pull on the god pool.

    Ever notice how the “good guys” seem to win in all the stories. My bet is because the avatars cheat and use god power vs their own power and can thus win in an otherwise well matched up duel. I.e. to succeed as a demon, you have to be more powerful than the same level avatar…

    Again, just might thoughts on the issue.

    Tom’s trick is a huge concern for deities, it could be particularly devastating for lesser gods with fewer followers. however, for the major religions like the Etonian’s…well they are diversified and I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t have emergency agreements in place or could get help from their fellow pantheon members in the face of such an attack.

    Yes, cutting off the supply line is always a critical tactic in any combat situation.


    Maou you have such intricate ideas. Tizzy would be mind boggled. And as for corruption, there is that one priest who summons a demon and who got Tom instead. Demons don’t seem to do that much to corrupt them. They do it themselves.

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