True Names

Welcome To Astlan Forums Into The Abyss True Names

  • This topic has 111 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by Tizzy.
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  • #2428
    Tizzy
    Member

    Yep….

    In particular, he inscribed it on a ring, thus while there might be some leeway in pronounciation…when you put it in writing, you better get it 100% perfect.

    We demons are a bit picky about such things.

    :d/

    #2432
    Tizzy
    Member

    Actually, I am trans-fluent in sign language. Having 4 hands makes me almost impossible to drown out in a conversation!

    If I had two heads I could do the same with audible speech.

    Of course, now that I offered you mispronunciation as an explanation…and you wrote this really nice long post…I have to be a little bit demonic.

    They were all on the Astral Plane when Tom “said his name” turns out there is no air on the Astral Plane (or not much) and no physical body to move air to make sound. Everything is a form of mental/spiritual communications.

    So whether you THINK you are speaking English or Clickese it’s not sound based. I believe the spells the wizards use, have some sort of brain wave translator built into them…but really not sure.

    #2486
    Maou
    Member

    What if a demons true name cannot be pronounced. Humans can only make so many sounds.

    #2439
    Rosver
    Member

    Hmm. Isn’t your true name an essence of who you are? Then changing your true name essentially makes you not you.

    A device that shows your true name… might not be possible. I mean, there is nothing in a true name to detect. You can say tell what a color a mineral is or how much it weigh or how dull it is, but, unless you know the name of the mineral, there is nothing in the mineral that would tell you what its name is. You can’t pick a magnifying glass or something that would tell you it is called _____. And that is for something mundane, like the name of the mineral (which is quite finite in number). Now for names (which is infinite in number), a device such as that is even more impossible. But still it is a fantasy world, anything is possible, even break the law of the universe.

    As for gods seeing other god’s agents as demons. That bids the question, how could a god (or anyone) tell its a demon? And if a god can mistake other entities as demons, does that mean, these entities and demons are basically the same? Could you even say that these gods are demons themselves?

    #2448
    Tizzy
    Member

    The black thing in the chest is actually a visualization of the wizard link binding to an accursed master.

    One could go into the logic of why it appears black vs some other color but I won’t, it’s pure speculation.

    These links are umbilical cords very much like a ‘Silver Cord’ and they go off from the demon and sort of disappear into the astral plane and then back to the accursed master.

    An intact one extends somewhat tautly from the chest for some distance before ‘disappearing’ between planes. If one were to focus on following the link with demon sight, once can generally/eventually see where it goes, unless the wizard has masked it from third party scrutiny, however the demon who has the link attached can always follow it. They always know where their master is, if they desire to look.

    When the link is broken, they appear sort of like a severed umbilical cord and sort of coil up closer to the demon, and just trail off, they aren’t going into the astral plane necessarily, although for a while they may….eventually they will shrivel up to nothing and flake away, like an umbilical cord.

    If a demon has 2 or more masters, he/she will have one such cord for every master that has bound him or her.

    Basically all “link” spells appear to demon sight/wizard sight/etc as a tethering cord between the linked subjects/objects. They are just different colors or patterns etc depending on what type of link it is.

    #2503
    Rosver
    Member

    Well, there are always ‘good’ guys that band together to fight the ‘bad’ guys, and there are always ‘bad’ guys that band together to fight the ‘good’ guys. The order of The Rod of Tiernon and Exador, Ramses, Bess team are given in the book.

    Wizzards to seem to wor together, though clearly not out of duty, religion, camaraderie or values. Heck, those big shots are very unfriendly and unapproachable. They work together more for mutual benefit than anything else.

    #2475
    Maou
    Member

    Out of curiosity if the Humans declared war on the dark alvar and tried to exterminate them, would the light alvar aid them?

    #2449
    Tizzy
    Member

    And yes, Rupert is not bound since no one knew he was a demon.

    His father would most likely have given him his true name. I doubt he knows it, but not sure, never asked, that’s a rather sensitive subject as you might imagine.

    #2417
    Tizzy
    Member

    Only overthinking it if it’s not possible to split demons.

    If it is possible, and you’re a wizard summoning what you think is a single demon and you get 4, that might complicate things. Especially if they each had time to increase in power after the split (e.g. they started out 1/4 as powerful…but now each has independently gotten more powerful in the multitasking manner that is now possible such that the sum is more than the original single demon could have amassed in the same time)

    True names are a very tricky thing. Sages have been arguing this a lot. Juniors, Seniors, the third…there is very little to keep someone from naming a child the same as someone else…so there must be something more to it.

    This is why true names are generally not calling names, they basically have to be more complicated.

    Now, I am not a wizard or a sage, so I don’t know a lot about true names, but as a rule, they have to be distinct which is why you often have to trace a lineage. That is probably the only way to accurately name someone. The first person to get a unique name gets it, everyone that comes after with almost the same name has to trace the lineage back further until it’s unique.

    Now for humans, this is less of a deal than for demons because no one is trying to summon them…UNLESS you are trying to resurrect them and bring them back from the Planes of the Gods…in that case, you need their linage as bar back as possible to make it unique.

    Which makes for an interesting game of OK, this “name” isn’t unique, so I know someone has this true name…what value that is is not clear but…

    I would have to argue, that there is something more unique to true names than what meets the eye in the case of Tom and his true name. However it is a fairly unique name, but probably not absolutely unique…

    #2478
    Madfox11
    Member

    [quote=Maou;1225]So how divergent are the different races affected by another being knowing their true name? Are some races more sensitive to this than others?[/quote]

    I did not get the impression that the humans of Astlan care all that much about others knowing their true name, although it might be that keeping their true name hidden is so much second nature that they actually never even mention that their full names are not their actual names…

    #2473

    Definitely not omnipotent!

    They wish!

    Well…all I can say about those mythologies is this…at one time those stories were part of what people called religion. The stories of Zeus, Heracles, Aphrodite, etc. That was what human beings in ancient Rome and Greece, in all their so-human folly, believed to be ‘gospel’ those stories were their Bible. it was mainly oral, but eventually written down.

    If you can question how those people could believe in that non-sense, they you must also see why someone from outside of the Judeo-Christian-Muslim world might say the same about the stories in the books of those religions.

    So it’s interesting that you ask if they are omnipotent, the ancient gods were never omnipotent, the JCM G-d is omnipotent, and if you ask me, an omnipotent, omniscient deity brings up even more questions than those posed by the ancient gods…

    But then, I am a demon, it is my job to spread heresy in all forms.

    But, of course, it’s always better to read non-fiction, like DoA than to read fiction like these other books.
    o:)

    #2496
    Rosver
    Member

    “You need sex as a species to survive so why do so many humans view it as a sin.”

    Huh? This is stupid. No one really said that sex is a sin. Well, fornication and adultery., also pedophillia and homosexuality, but not sex.

    “I have read many stories where humans are the good guys, but if you are in a world with multiple sentient races and they have all banded together to kill your people, then you are probably not the good guys.”

    That does make some sense, however I never have come up much of fiction about multiple sentient races that banded together to kill humans. Well, there are those who kill humans but they never have banded together. Can you tell me a title of a book with this premise?

    #2433
    Rosver
    Member

    In hindsight, my LOLing in the end seems too discourteous. I ask for forgiveness.

    Well, it doesn’t really matter anyway. It is enough to know that wizards take control of you with your name.

    Is there a way for demons not to respond to wizards when the wizards summon them? A spell or charm of sorts?

    #2466
    Rosver
    Member

    Maou, I can’t really see demons having that very high amount of cooperation but the possibilities of that tactic is really astounding. I just doubt it would ever happen. Magic using demons are high level demons (level 4 +) and they just don’t seem to be creatures who would share their mana with others. Even partnership like Ramses, Exador and Bess have are rare and as we see isn’t very stable with them thinking about getting rid of the other all the time.

    No, the possibility of demons sharing mana is just too remote.

    #2508
    Tizzy
    Member

    Are you trying to scare the crap out of people in Astlan?

    Cause that will do it.

    So much of their comfort level comes from knowing as a fact what demons look like, and how they can and should and do behave.

    The idea of “demons among us” would literally scare the living daylights out of them.

    In fact…for those who are starting to suspect (Damien for example) it’s having that very effect.

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