Killing Demons

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    Does a demon with a physical body with a silver cord attached to a demonic soul need to be killed twice, have the body weaken and constrain it, or does the body protect them from things that would normally detect, enslave, or kill them?



    Well, demons [i]seem[/i] to have something like a silver cord that tether them to the abyss.

    It’s not though, or not exactly. When they are summoned, one would think they’d leave a body behind in the Abyss that they could then go back to, like Astral Travel.

    But their body fades from the Abyss and re materializes in Astlan.

    One would think that using a Demonic Gateway would mean their physical body traveled to Astlan and thus any silver cord would go there, that’s how it would work for a human. However, it doesn’t. They are still tethered to the abyss like in a summons. And if killed they go back there.

    That being said, Animage demons and Wizard Demons can actually “do astral travel/projection” and leave their body somewhere (the abyss, astlan, an outer plane) and travel to distant realms and make a second body. The two bodies are connected by a silver cord, and the astrally projected demon has a cord to his body, whereever it is. But they also that weird Abyss cord/connection.

    So, if such a demon were to have a body in Astlan, leave it there and travel to say Westeros, create a body there and run around. They could zip back and forth between the bodies, the unoccupied one would just appear to sleep.

    However, if the active body is destroyed, while a normal human would be pulled back to their first body, a demon goes back to the Abyss, by default, unless they can consciously force themselves to the other “stashed” body on the other plane.

    This is what Lenamare thought Tom was doing. Because if Tom were on another Plane of Man, in a body there, he couldn’t be conjured (the same way Lenamare couldn’t conjure Tom when he was Edwyrd) Without a “stashed” body, the only place the demon is tethered to is the Abyss, and since given a true name, a wizard can conjure from the Abyss, the unbound demon couldn’t escape to there.

    Basically you can’t conjure a spirit creature that’s in the Planes of Man from one Plane to the Other or the same. You can only conjure a spirit creature from the Heavenly Planes, the Astral Plane and the Abyss.


    What would happen to a demon who had their connection to the abyss severed? And would this reaction change base on location?

    My theories are the demon becomes easier to kill, the link restores itself quickly, or something very bad occurs. I will elaborate on these thoughts at a later date as I wish to know others opinions on these matters.


    I am not sure how you would do that.

    The Abyss link is weird. There is no cord/nothing tangible that any (most) of us can see. Nothing to slice or dice or disconnect. It is a very weird link–maybe not even a link.

    Remember normally astral cords/links go between two objects.

    What ever binds demons to the Abyss binds them to an entire Infinite Plane that happens to fall outside the normal structure of the multiverse.


    Animus is the manifestation of the fifth element, Spirit. Mana is some sort of cosmic glue that both binds elements together, and keeps them separate, like an invisible film to keep them from completely mixing if my understanding is correct. How much is present varies from reality as they each have their own rules. The link will in some instances occur naturally as Animus will often draw mana towards it, wizards however often do the reverse in using mana to draw animus towards them. They use mana to attract any desired element which they desire to use for their spells and then manifest.

    I am not an expert and am basing this on my knowledge of astlanian magic.


    Rosver, are you asking about normal “Links” the umbilical cords, or the demon to Abyss link.

    The normal links are pretty well understood in all the various forms of magic. I have several articles on them that will make their way out.

    One big problem I have is that I’ve lost a lot of my old writings (or stored them somewhere I can’t find).

    The original stuff was mostly in AmiPro and later maybe some Word Pro…so just extracting the text is a bit tedious.

    One big loss was a thing called the Wizard’s Appendix. I haven’t been able to find an electronic copy, yet. However, I did find a printed copy of it that I scanned to PDF last night. I’m not sure how complete it is.

    That has stuff on Links, Mana Pools, Arcane Devices, more on Demons (from a Wizards point of view).

    As far as the link to the Abyss, that may or may not make it’s way out. Probably will by the end. It’s tied to the nature of the Abyss and that other discussion in the forums about the Abyss not like other planes and the river Styx.

    Not a bad theory for a ‘non-expert’ Maou! o:)


    Is it possible that the astlanian dimension supports four spatial dimensions but only uses three?
    E.g. programming support on a jock’s computer?
    If so then the abyss might be were that compatibility is stored.
    If tom figures out how to think in four dimensions… No summoning circle could fully bind him, no wizard could make a link he cannot break by tearing it apart were it has no defenses, e.g. from a fourth dimension. He could break a demons connection to the abyss and kill it forever. More important is that he could make a link that wizards and clerics don’t know about and can’t see, then possess them whenever the whim strikes him.
    I was thinking that astral travel might just be another level of parallel dimensions that wizards discovered with similar rules to the astlanian one but for lack of a better turn, sideways… but if the abyss is four dimensional, that might be what the concordenax discovered, and what made him so powerful. Just a theory relevant to the current discussion.
    It’s relevant because the demonic link might be in the fourth dimension.:-$ keep this secret from anyone with a modicum of creativity will you? Because the chaos this could cause 8-[ … On second thought Tizzy please share this with everyone but lenamare.
    Pandemonium is fun.


    Actually it sort of depends on what you mean by dimensions…but what you say is, I suspect, getting towards the truth.

    It turns out that the alternate realities are all caused by using different dimensional sets.

    There are in fact an infinite number of possible dimensions, humans/demons can only perceive/occupy/exist on so many dimensions at one time. Which combination of dimensions you occupy determines what reality you are experiencing.

    Traveling between planes is basically changing which set of dimensions you are occupying at any given time. This is string theory/quantum topology.

    My suspicion is that you are correct and there is some very “special” dimension of space time that the abyss occupies (along with some others) and demons somehow always occupy this dimension as well, even when they on various planes.

    When they are killed it’s this “extra dimensionality” that they share with the Abyss that allows them to regenerate in the abyss.

    So, yeah. I think you’ve hit on it.

    Excellent reasoning!



    Are weapons that are effective against demons also effective against other mana entities such as dragons, avatars, angels, deities, and djinn?


    [quote]Are weapons that are effective against demons also effective against other mana entities such as dragons, avatars, angels, deities, and djinn?[/quote]

    In general as a rule: presumably.

    Dragons definitely.

    Avatars/Angels/Deities: Don’t think anyone has ever lived to report on this one.

    Djinn: Depends on what you wish for. They tend to be a lot more insubstantial than the rest of us, but that’s because of their weird nature. But I’d think that anything that works trans-asterally i.e. stuff that works on ghosts, spirits, demons, etc. “should work” at least to some extent.


    I kind of want to see a god killed, it would bring chaos to the land, bring doubt to their fateful, and it might make them question for what reasons they willingly choose to summon demons into the world.


    Yeah, let me know when you plan to do that and I’ll be on another plane on the far side of the multiverse.


    Oh my goodness! Kill a god?

    Well, history. Did you know what Americans did when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor?… Yep, Americans nuked Japan.

    Now. What would the gods do when one of them is killed by demons? They will do more than nuke the demons I tell you.


    The abyss is mostly a wasteland filled with countless demons, demons are almost impossible to kill their, and the fact that the gods go out of their way to make their own territories and then never once try to purge the abyss leads one to conclude that the abyss might have a very negative effect towards gods. If not then what reason do you have for as to why the gods haven’t tried to destroy the demons sooner apart from giving their followers a common evil enemy for whom they need show remorse which will cause them to seek protection from a higher power?


    Yep, I am going to build myself an ark to haul anybody that wants to get away from Maou and his crazy plans as fast as possible.

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