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I have tried to give feedback, but many just make me give negative feedback. I don’t think they would like to hear that.
Its one of the best perk of being a demon. You are not a demon if you take no interest in such stuff. Even Tom, softie as he is, killed and tortured humans.
Well, he is 700 years old. Still that does not illiminate the problem of the half demon parency and the pain it would cause.
I wonder what excuse you will have for this clothing and other stuff that seems to remain unspoilt in the extreme heat of the Abyss. Though I note that there are many who wore clothes. Those typical street demons dressed in blue jeans and leather jackets? They are typical.
Of course not to mention those silk and probably other fabric furnishings (curtains, table cloths, upholstery) and similar stuff (carpet, fur, paper).
While it does give the point 1, those info doesn’t make the story richer nor does those info have any consequence, unlike Tom’s.
Point 2 is already established, having dozens of such scenes is just a waste of space.
Point 3, while important, is just not that important to require a scene; especially when it is just repeated allover again in other scenes further down. You can cut this scene out and we will still know about the link in the scene where he show it to Jenn and Maelen. Not to mention, this scene is rather dull.
@Tizzy
Hmm. You did not tell me what the method was. It would have given me an advantage.
I also guess Tom is independent also?
Major Plotlines
1)
The most well developed. This is about Hilda investigating the large drain of mana. It is all about the investigation.
One thing (and is related to the Lenamare issue I post sometime ago), since Hilda is investigating, she has to answer the ‘Who’ question. Strangely she didn’t try to get the demon’s name when she can easily get it from Trisfelt, or at least try to.
There is a terrible lack of interaction between the Host and Tom and other demons. While not bad per se, it did betrayed the expectations created by the book’s title.
It has its good points thoug. Hilda is one interesting character that she even outshines many of the original ones (like Jenn, Gastrope and Rupert)
2)
The easiest thing to do (and might be the best) would be to cut it out. This plotline is more of a clutter than anything relevant, especially when the purpose of the journey (aside from fleeing Freehold), which is to investigate about Bess, is not even done, which just makes whole journey pointless.
Other than that, you could just cut a lot of their travel (which is boring) and instead add in some ‘fluff’ instead like say Jenn worrying about Rupert, or Maelen talking about Edwyrd to Elrose, or them sharing stories with the inhabitants of the Grove. That would have been more interesting than all those turns in the roller coaster.
Also, you might instead put in the very reason why Jenn and company did the whole treck in the first place and that is to investigate the ruins of Bastet’s old temples. Please make them see even just one of those.
3)
This for me has the problem of lacking any strong conflict and tension even if it is the one major plotline of the whole book. You could even say that everything goes very easy for Tom. It seems like every possible enemy Tom might have (even Talarius who is with him) is giving him a lot of slack.
Secondary Plotlines
1)
This is one that has given me a lot of head scratching as it doesn’t make much sense. It didn’t even have a plot as most of the things that happen is just about them talking about something confusing. I actually forgot what they are doing in the book after I finished reading it.
2)
This one has lot of potential that is unused. Really, Vaselle is just ordered to do some shopping. I can’t also call this a plotline as plot is something it didn’t have.
3 a)
Hmmm… this plotline doesn’t really exist in book 2.
3 b)
Well, Exador laugh at Randolf’s face, the end. Not really exciting IMO.
4)
This one is very similar to Jenn and Gastrope’s trek as they are simply traveling and is even less relevant. This one plotline you can cut and the story would not be affected in my opinion.
5)
What adventures?
To me, this various scenes of Rupert actually just highlight how irrelevant Rupert became in the story. This ‘adventures’ is nothing more than Rupert trying to amuse himself.
6)
This is one plotline that is left hanging. We see the ship but since we don’t know what it do, or if it even works, we are left asking: What’s the big deal?
6.1)
They doesn’t really register much to me. Aside from becoming some sort of inferior replacement for Talarius, there isn’t much going on.
7)
Well, we are just being introduced to them. There isn’t much of a plot yet.
8)
This one is also just another introduction. You can’t really have much of an opinion when things barely even started.
Other things you missed. These plotlines seems to might have importance to the story but is otherwise undeveloped of left hanging in the end of the book.
1) The Djinns. Nothing much happened and developed but them having connection and interest in Astlan, they seem to be big players.
2) Lenamare and company. They plan to flee… that’s it.
3) Hilda vs the Guild of Beggars. It seems Hilda has make some enemies and is related in a lot of detail. Just can’t see how it relates to the overall story.
4) Jenn and Gastrope romance. Which is kinda lame. After all, Jenn vs Trevin and Nymphs? Pffft! Also there are those winged dudes. This one is a rather messy romance plotline. Still, them being rather important in book 1, this development does carry weight.
5) The Grove and the world. It seems that the Grove has isolated itself from the others but recent events seems to have force them to open and become another big player on the field.
6) Tiernon and his avatars, and the Rod and the Church of Tiernon. Very minor but it seem the avatar of Tiernon seems unhappy with the Rod and the Church. The avatars have become distrustful with their followers that they send Hilda instead of relying on them. This is a rather large crack on the organization.
7) Exador, Bess, Ramses and the Wizards of Freehold. The three demons have invaded Freehold and the wizards want some reparations. They also want to see if Exador is really an Archdemon. This plotline though doesn’t really get off.
@The Deposed King
Yes! The time between the start of the book and when he acquire the wand was so… empty. Most of the first half is dull and lacking. Not something to expect following Tom’s fight from the first book. I really feel that that first half needs to be filled out.
The works on the deviantart seems to be of a different in style compared to the book cover art. Is this intensional?
Ahhh…
I’m taking this at evolutionary standpoint. And from evolutionary standpoint pleasure and happiness isn’t a purpose. It is about survival. Eating, drinking, sleeping, playing, sex is all survival first pleasure second. I could actually say the same thing about eating and drinking for demons.
Also, sex IS for procreation. You don’t need sex for intimacy and sharing… which is against the nature of demons. Nor do you need it for fun and pleasure. Just like eating is for nourishing, and drinking is for hydrating. Yes, they are pleasurable too, but they existence doesn’t come to be because of pleasure. There is an actual need for them. Take them away; say if humans can’t breed, eat or drink; and they would cease to exist. Not the same with demons. No eating? Just fine. No drinking? They won’t die from thirst. No sex? Who needs babies?
In fact, indulging in them primarily for pleasure results to multiple of problems. Eating for pleasure causes various problems like being overweight, gout and malnourishment. Drinking? Common cause for traffic accidents. Sex is a bit more insidious. The most pressing is the spread of diseases like gonorrhea, syphilis and HIV/AIDS. The less acknowledged problem is infertility which is quite ironic.
Also, I thought that demons don’t feel pain. That what you feel is just illusion. In fact, its quite difficult to make demons feel pain. You could hit a demon with a four by four and it would not even tickle. It really required great effort or special abilities to be able to hurn one of them, even to weak ones.
Also how would booze and drugs affect demons? I mean, demons have very different physiology from other creatures. They don’t even have real body for Pete’s sake. Then how could booze and drugs even have effect? Don’t you think that just sounds absurd?
@The Author Guy
Well, when we first meet Antefalken, he stated that he is 753 years old. Chapter 33.
@Tizzy
Thanks. I’ll check it out.
Hey. What about this. Why don’t end the book with Tom acquiring the Wand of Orcus and becoming the master of Mount Doom? To me, that event is a more worthwhile ending.
You could them fill things and expand things and add things. You can say make Tom fight the D’Orcs before he acquire the Wand. Tom could confront other demons. Learn more about the demon world. Study more magic. The Wizards could even try to summon Tom to destroy him or something.
You could also make Gastrope and Jenn’s travel less boring by adding some conflict or increase in stakes. Fight Orcs? Lift malfunction? Heard some freaky stories? Learn more about these community of freaks. etc.
There are lot of things that could be added.
Then you can put the things that are cut (half of the book actually) to the third book.
By, the way, I’m just throwing in things and I know my idea might be very stupid than I thougt. Just ignore me then.
Well, some betas are writing their impressions. I present mine.
-Lack of intensity. Into the Abyss has a very strong forward push that ends with a bang. Things keep escallating till it peak in a burst of action in the form of the fight between Tom and Talarius. It was intense. The Heavenly Host, in turn, is dull. While there are some escalations like Tom being made a demon prince and gaining an army, overall the events are low key.
-A lack of overall cohesion of the story strands. This book has lots of characters or group of character and each has an overall story and minor stories but many of these stories doesn’t contribute to a whole. There are also stories that is going nowhere or not reaching any form of conclusion and is left hanging.
-A lack of momentum. Well, you know, after reading a book, you have this desire to continue reading. If there are further adventures, you want to read it. I call this momentum. Into the Abyss has it in tons. I really want to know what happens next. The Heavenly Host lacks that. After reading it, I don’t feel like continuing.
-lackluster conclusion. The end of the book should have give you a sense of satisfaction. It rewards you for your troubles. The Heavenly Host doesn’t give you much. After reading the story, you end up with something that doesn’t feel like it deserved the work to get it nor is it satisfying.
-lack of humour. Into the Abyss gives us a rather interesting humour that we derived from the strange situation the characters are in. It was subtle but still ammusing. The Heavenly Host is more straightforward and vulgar but is less successful. Green jokes, poop, schadenfreude. Some works but many don’t.
Things that I do like:
-D’Orcs. They are awesome. They give Tom the power he really needs.
-Vaselle. Hey, he is not much now, but this character opens a lot of potential.
-Hilda. She provides a really interesting side of the story. Not to mention she is awesome a character herself, though she is so obsessed with her wines.
-Tom as reincarnation of Orcus. Well, that was an interesting development.Stuff I don’t like:
-Trevin D’Vils. She adds nothing. She offers nothing. Her dialogue is garbage. She is full of info dump. And her character is repellant.
-Many of Gastrope and Jenn’s trek. It was boring. It adds nothing to the story. It is loaded with info dump.
-Those pointless views from various characters. Uhhh… why would I be interested about them now?WTF – They might be good, they might be bad, but I seriously question their inclusion.
-Reggie. He come and goes, come and goes. Seems to have something but we are given nothing.
-Randolf/Crispin. Does the story improve in some way because of this? Do you have some plans in the future for their relationship?
-‘N’ and company. How do they relate to the story?
-Various Gods. They come and they go and leave me scratching my head. They are imporant characters in the story but they are making me confused at the moment.
-Tizzy reveal. Uhhh… now what? Should something incredible be happening becuase we now know something about Tizzy?Star rating = ** – two stars.
It has its great moments but it is otherwise overshadowed by tiresome and superfluous sections, lack of vigor and an unremarkable ‘ending’.
Hah! Demon orders are so finicky and downright dangerous. Wizzards must insane to have demons to order around. Just one misstep, and you are fucked.
Added to the complication is the amorphous nature of languages. As Alice had learned from Humpty Dumpty:
[quote] “I don’t know what you mean by ‘glory,’ ” Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. “Of course you don’t—till I tell you. I meant ‘there’s a nice knock-down argument for you!’ ”
“But ‘glory’ doesn’t mean ‘a nice knock-down argument’,” Alice objected.
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”[/quote]A very creative and imaginative demon can make any sentence mean anything.
