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Therefore, you have a mix of
1) Coming of age
2) Character moved to a different universe and adapting
3) Giant battle fantasy (Paul Edwin Zimmer’s The Dark Border Series–>which had to be a huge inspiration for GoT)
4) Political Drama
5) Adventure
6) Maybe-lesser-RomanceEh?
1) Not the focus
2) Many Adventure books start like this. It a trope, not a genre
3) Another trope
4) This has not developed much yet to be any sort of political drama especially when there is no political power conflict that existed yet
5)Yes
6) You mean Jenn and Gastrope? Yeah, there is one that is starting, a somewhat lame one.Well, modern novels has mixed a lot of stuff, but generaly, they still focus in one aspect. Romance for example has fantasy or adventure elements mixed in. Still, it is focused on the Romance part so it is still romance.
Your book essentially is still an Adventure. It is still about excitement and danger. The main course of course is fighting. There would also be big bangs, bad guys, nuking the fridge, near death, etc. All the fun stuff.
I think we are seeing eye to eye. I was never talking about the artistic quality or RPG. I was talking about video games and stories. I think you are including all kind of computer games, even those that are not video games.
Well, most video games now has stories in them and the video game is becoming some sort of storytelling medium, but it is a wellknown fact that it is not neccessary for a video game to have any story at all like Tetris. You can remove all story elements in many video games and it would still be a fun game like Donkey Kong.
In early video games, story lines is often just an excuse. Donkey Kong for example had a hero saving a damsel in distress story, but it can be argued that the story is not important for this game. Story lines are really very simplistic or not important for the gaming experience.
RPG has been around for a long time, but because of limitations, it doesn’t translate well in early video games. Then the limitation is overcomed and there is now come a genre of video game where the story is an essential part of the experience.
Now stories become a big part in video games and the story lines of video games become complex, even to those games that don’t need to be. Platforming games for example has very involved stories.
As for quality… You know, it might just be the universe. There had always been bad output but somehow at this time around by just simple chance, the products that got out isn’t so great. Very much like you are getting a long streak of lossing. Its just chance.
Also you can make video games with very little money now. There are many popular software development products that are quite free. There are also free game engines out there: Godot enables you to make 2D and 3D games. Blender has a capable game engine. Unity (a professional product) game engine was for people to use for free. And a lot others. There is modding of course, it has become a common scene these days. It is still quite difficult to make quality games but the barrier for entering is very low.
I know that Tizzy. Color Blind is also a euphemism for people who have black and white morality.
Disney movie mirror’s actually acts like a normal mirror, the evil queen needs a chant to activate its magic. Tallarius’ mirror seems to be always activated.
Also, did you know that there is an old superstition that the reflection you see in the mirror is your soul? That is why it is said to be bad luck to break a mirror, because you are hurting your soul.
@Anskier
I said “they plan to flee… that’s it” becuase that is what is there for his plotline. They just plan to run but nothing much about them later can be seen.
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I agree with Anskier about the Wizards’s reaction to the demonic invasion. It’s like after they feel the work is done after they succeeded in evicting the demons. They big lazy bums.
As for the Djinns, I think the problem here is that you are introducing a lot of new characters in a very short period. It is like being in a party where you are introduced to all the guest. What happens is that you won’t really know them or even remember them because you just can’t.
I think it would help if you introduce some of these character later, maybe in book three. Since these is a book, you don’t have to worry about presenting everything chronologicaly. You can present the characters much later when they could have appeared much earlier.
I think it would also help if you end the story at Tom acquiring the wand and gaining the aliance of the D’Orcs, as I suggested before. This would make you able to introduce the Djinns much later and give them proper space. This would also remove a lot of the events after Tom acquired the wand, like the hunt and shopping spree, and make space for all these characters that you introduced.
Well, one very long series I known is Anne of Green Gables Series. Though it was a series, each book could be read independently from each other. Each book also has vastly different stories and major arcs. Maybe because it is not an adventure story that makes such diversity possible?
WoT doesn’t interest me much when I fist see it, haven’t read it, so can’t really contribute. Though would you advice me to read it? Or it would just be a waste in the end?
I think you need to make a special dictiontionary for the Oorstemoths. LOL.
@Pathologic:
It is not that I dislike the parts with Ruiden, it is just that I recognize that those scenes adds nothing or very little to the story. Even in the scene where it fights Exador, its primary role is a demon detector.
@The Author Guy
-On reviews
As I said these bashings and insults are very rare. The only book that I came across that raises such vitriol is this book:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16113648-i-can-be-an-actress-i-can-be-a-computer-engineerComplete with death threats.
The most common form of negative review I come across are along these line:
-The characters are stupid/unlikable.
-The story is stupid.
-The book is boring.Of course reviewers write it more colorfuly like these:
-[character name] is the biggest moron in the world./ I just wish [character name] would drop dead.
-I can’t believe any of this shit./ The story has enough plot holes to sink Titanic.
-I start reading the book and I magically was able to tidy up my house./ It is an effective cure for insomia.This is primarily the result of writing for other readers instead of the authors. They aren’t targeting the writers, but they didn’t do it in a manner that make it acceptable to the writers. They mostly do it in a way to entertain the other readers.
Others do try to be considerate but then aren’t very good in properly writing it so that it would be more acceptable to the authors. Often they aren’t really that helpful at all and just use plain speak like “this book is awful/boring””I don’t like it””nothing special”
Sometimes, I think that the authors are just being too sensitive. As most readers aren’t really that great with prose, they would not be able to write their reviews in a way that is ‘acceptable’ or ‘constructive.’ They write it plain and blunt which I think isn’t ‘considerate’ enough for many authors. Words like “this is stupid” which is how people would actually speak is considered bashing for by many authors. It is also quite difficult to ascertain if a writing would insult or not. Something honest like “the writing is horrible” would be considerd an insult to many writers, but then there aren’t many ways to say that without sounding a bore.
-on Author Interaction
You just spell it, its for the readers. Therefore, even if the writers is capable of of writing more… technically, academically and respectfully; they don’t because other readers won’t be able to understand them or be turned off. They have to resort to more simple and colorful writing that the common readers could enjoy and read.
You know how it is. When you write, you write for the audience. Since the author isn’t part of the audience; the technical, the academic, and even the considerate is often sacrificed to reach the audience and make it more accessible to them. Reviewers often have to write more honestly and directly (The writing is horrible. The character is stupid) than something more constructive and considerate to the author (The sentences could have been writen to flow more smoothly. [character name] could have been more more observant and skillful in magic and use it to solve problems instead of relying on coincedenses and deus ex machina). The honest and direct (and often colorful) writing is more helpful to potential readers and buyers than the ‘constructive critism’ writen for the author. Potential consumers has no need for such detailed reply and those details won’t actually help them make a decision.
Those other avenues for author interaction are more oriented to the readers who do like the work. They are the ones who liked to have more info or so about the book. Such avenue is the last thing an unsatisfied reader would go to. The (extremely) unsatisfied ones probably rant in a review and delete or throw the book to the trash and forget about it. The less enthused will probably just give two or three stars and it at that. As such, those things are biased (towards positive) and less of an honest look of the situation.
Also, well, we are not actually talking about author interaction per se, but we are talking about reviews and the nature of these reviews. Insisting that they be ‘constructive critism’ or author oriented is wasted because they aren’t meant to be. These are for the readers, and as such, they can be rather blunt and unforgiving. What is there is actually more of an honest reaction than serious critique. The hatred and bashing are their real reactions to the book (and says a lot about the reviewer) rather than a critical evaluation you are looking for.
Still, that doesn’t mean these bashings and rantings isn’t witout substance. See that Barbie book I given before? That sure has raised a lot of ire from the population and made the news. These ‘reviews’ arguably might not be constructive or objective, but the grievances amid the hate is still valid.
Such hatred and bashing also could actually come from the people who like the work but somehow the makers decision antagonize them. A great example is EA and their game franchises, particularly the games Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3, and Dungeon Keeper Mobile. These francises have a huge fan base that have put a lot of effort and fortune for their beloved games. But then, EA makes creative decisions that doesn’t go well with them, or I might say insult them, and such, a huge backlash of hate had threatened EA and tarnished their name (nominated for The Worst Company in America, twice). Hatred from the fans might actually be more scathing than from the casual readers.
And the company’s response is quite vile. They actually disrespect their fanbase. Good job EA.
If authors really want constructive critism, then they actually have to directly ask the readers, or beta readers and the like. That way it would prime the reader to be constructive in his critique and enable a more clear interaction between them and the author.
And I do would love to be able to talk to the authors or makers. One that I would love to talk to is Shigeru Miyamoto! I would realy realy to meet him in person.
There are a lot of changes in the relationship between writers and readers nowdays. Self publication has become influencial now. Then there is also things like Wattpad that actually makes writer/reader interaction a central part of the platform. Then there is fan fiction (and fan art) that makes writing an integral part of fan culture. You will be surprised by the number of Harry Potter fan works are out there. Then there are also a lot of Twilight fan fiction out there. Ewwww!
@Tizzy
Awww! Tizzy is feeling left out.
It would have been good if they feel excited once in a while along the trip. As of now, they are feeling sick, nausaeted, bored, uncomfortable, etc. After reading about that for sometime, I’m feeling sick myself.
Aside from Trevis (who I dislike), the other characters lack any defining character to deferenciate them from other characters. It would have been interesting if there is one of those character who would actually interact meaningfuly at them. Talk to them, share stories and experiences ect. As of now, these new characters are more like props, they define the scene but otherwise doesn’t add much to the experience.
@Tizzy
Well, sketchy isn’t the appropriate term, it should be painterly. Nothing is wrong with a painterly style and many artist like working in painterly styles.
To see what I mean look at this work:
http://jubjubjedi.deviantart.com/art/Dungeon-Explorers-521022888
Notice how much more attention is given to the hair on the characters compared to the book cover art.
And this:
http://jubjubjedi.deviantart.com/art/Homing-Beacon-Warhammer-40-000-Conquest-496841704
Notice the more defined folds on the fabric and more care given on the shading.
But then, this is his portfolio and artist often display their best work there.
@Anskier
That is what I was asking at first seing it. I just then assumed that he was looking at himself (hand), though Tom should have his head tilted lower.
@The Author Guy
I think Lenamare is more distracting. His blue clothing is a large area of cool color among the mostly warm color of the whole image. His bold pose and some elements like Tom’s left claw and Jehena’s hand point directly at him and directs your attention at him.
I would have liked the Tom vs Talarius cover.
well….
How about the time when Tom, Tizzy, Rupert, Jenn, Gastrope, and Maelen travelled together? There is a lot of characters but it does give the Adventure vibe.
Also, a scene in the “The Ripe Young Maiden’s Surprise” would also be great. It would be quite humorous and fantastical at the same time.
That certain blue genie would have been less esoteric, especially when this book is aimed for younger audiences. I was not able to get the reference until Anskier mention it. All I get was getting confused to who she may be. I think, you need to give more detail than the very vague clue that was in the book, like actualy giving the title of the show.
While you struggle to get all in, you did manage to get in a lot of nothing. Sorry my awful mouth. The adventure of J and G is not really an adventure than a step by step travelogue which have almost zero relevance to the whole story. There is also that Hilda-vs-Beggars scene, while give some insight about Hilda, has absolutely nothing to do with the whole story (yet).
As for Zelda… I always had thought her, and most D’Orcs, minor. You can give her more relevance if you like, though that is making your list of focal characters more numerous.
Well, actually to me Tom does not deviate from the course or disobey orders. As I said just a while ago, languages is amorphous.
[quote]You will not deviate from your course to or from the tower in any way.[/quote]
It seems that Tom break this one but he doesn’t. The key here is the ‘your course’ clause. Since Lenamare doesn’t specifically specify a course Tom should take, this clause could be taken as Tom’s choosen course to go to and from Zilquar. He chooses to a course that went through the forest and he follows it, as ordered.
He also doesn’t violate the ‘directly’ clause:
[quote]You will go directly to the tower and demand to speak to Zilquar.[/quote]
The key here the ‘to the tower’ clause. That means it only applies when he go to Zilquars keep and not when he comes from Zilquars Keep. And:
[quote]You will harm no one nor anything at this point.[/quote]
Well, the key is the ‘at this point’ clause. It is rather ambigous. What did the ‘this’ pronoun points to? What ‘point’ does he mean? And when does this point (of time) begin and ends?
See? Give an order to a demon and you can always make ways to twist it.
While I would not disagree with what you said about Coming of Age trope. We started with:
[quote]Well, I think, historically it is hard to separate Coming of Age from Adventure in some ways. It’s also hard to take Adventure out of something like Game of Thrones.
[/quote]
Which I respond by saying that many Adventure books doesn’t use the Coming of Age, and that Game of Thrones isn’t something for adventure junkies. We kinda derail a bit with those tangential trivia.As for lack of adventure: then read textbooks, encyclopedias, magazines, articles and the like? It is not always about adventure why we read something.
Why are you somewhat so against me calling it Adventure? I can’t understand. Isn’t it what the whole story is for?
Also, isn’t archetypes about characters? You know, the Hero, the Trickster, the Mentor… Isn’t it?
As for it being classed as Parody… well isn’t it? Gulliver’s Travels was a parody and is poking fun of the Travellers’ Tales, that is common at that time. Well, instead of visiting exotic countries, you have Gulliver going from one weid world to another.
Yours poke fun on a lot of things. You poke of Demons (Tizzy especially), you poke fun of Wizards (Gastrope especially), you poke fun of Religion (Adam and Eve, and the Egyptian gods especially) and Myths (the Norse myths is especially notable here) and other stuff. That would make this story a Parody. A very similar form of parody would be the Diskworld series.
And I’m not just talking about Politics but Political drama. There is a big difference. While yours have politics going on, a Political Drama it is not.
