The Grove side plot/story – Jenn & Gastropé

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    See, that is the thing, one reason for the Grove is a lot of people wanted to know more about other non-human races and since the Grove has about as many in one place as you are going to find.

    I think it needs pizzazz and some trimming and I am thinking of cutting the in and the out of the roller coaster. Have them just come out puking or something 🙂

    Yes, I kept wanting Tizzy to call Gastrope’ and rattle his chain, but there aren’t a lot of fires on a cloud. High air content, high water content, but not much fire….and that’s what Gastrope’ would use to summon him.

    That makes that complicated. This is why I’ve been planning the reconnect for Murgatroy.


    [SPOILER]Well the holding hands etc is very slowmo romance. So this is important for that main reason. [/SPOILER]

    I think I really need to figure out a way to spice thos plot line up; there are key long things I want in there as setup, but how to get them in without inadvertently casting a sleeping spell upon the reader is the question.


    You are right, 120 miles/hour was the carpet. Sorry


    I read it until I got bored the first time, then skipped it entirely the second.


    Excellent points. Going to work on this full on. Need to bring some life to those guys, I really like your story telling character, that is a great information delivery mechanism.

    Trevin definitely creeps out Gastrope’. I also think that people who live too long get really different views of morality, values and what is important. Not necessarily evil, just different. That is a problem not just for Trevin, but the elves, the avatars, the gods and of course demons.


    It would have been good if they feel excited once in a while along the trip. As of now, they are feeling sick, nausaeted, bored, uncomfortable, etc. After reading about that for sometime, I’m feeling sick myself.

    Aside from Trevis (who I dislike), the other characters lack any defining character to deferenciate them from other characters. It would have been interesting if there is one of those character who would actually interact meaningfuly at them. Talk to them, share stories and experiences ect. As of now, these new characters are more like props, they define the scene but otherwise doesn’t add much to the experience.


    like or dislike?


    I’m not sure if i’m alone on this one or not – but i seriously wasn’t enamoured with the Jenn Gatrophe/Grove adventure piece – i get that they are en route somewhere important and whilst bits of their journey worked …a lot of it came across as filler – it seriously increased the page count and i’m not sure to what advantage, plot-wise…

    An aetos (winged dude/gal) character more in the forefront might have helped/ given us a glimpse into their culture, they just kinda popped up as guards and then remained in the background.

    Over all that plot line just seemed a little lacklustre – and i skimmed … i never thought i’d skim one of these books … but this particular side story just didn’t grab me.

    Perhaps it’s just me – but i think this whole side story needs a lot of work….



    The roller coaster ride is one of the elements. I mentioned it specifically because that scene made me think things were too silly and out of place regarding my how I viewed Astlan. But it was also that scene that made me first realize that I didn’t really care about the Jenn & Gastropé side story and when I first felt the urge to skip ahead.


    Was it the roller coaster ride that added the filler “feel” to it? I’m looking to narrow down on definable elements to fix/remove/adjust.

    I say this because, while, I enjoyed writing it, it did seem a bit “Harry Potterish” or “Hobbit like”‘

    Really not sure that it is particularly necessary. I have considered some condensation of that area. Or removal.

    Here is the thing, I like Gastrope’ worry about his own problems/issues with debts. to me it makes him seems to humanize him.

    Not so sure about some of the other trip/coaster and Fierdal bridge.


    I got bored around the time of the roller coaster ride.


    And at what point did boredom come in the first time?

    Too long a journey to the grove? To much time on the ship?


    Someone else said the same thing.

    Particularly in that it doesn’t come to a good fruition point…yet…that can be easily fixed. We are just getting to a head at the end…extending into book iii might fix this.

    I would also say that while this plot needs to happen a lot of the extra detail was there because numerous people have mentioned wanting to see more of the non-human races, and the Grove is basically a UN of other races.

    A big part of that storyline is to setup later juxtaposition issues for Gastrope’ in particular. The Elves/Alvar are going to be very anti-Mount Doom. The dwarves are going to be more split and fairly pro-Mount Doom.

    Then we have the Nyjyr Ennead and what their relationship to the Council and history is.

    They are tied to Tom via Hephaestus who ties out somewhat as we are seeing at end of book iii.

    So, yes I would agree this plotline needs a lot of work. [SPOILER]It’s also a place for Gastrope’ and Jenn to spend some downtime together to get to know each other. :)[/SPOILER]

    But this is one of the problems of trying to produce a book every year, or short books every year as many have suggested. That time frame doesn’t really give the author much time to massage all the details and perfect the telling of a complex tale that’s going to take several books to tell. In fact short books in spurts makes this sort of planning almost impossible because once a section is published, you can’t change it.

    This is part of why GRRM takes so long is working out all these details and presenting them in the right order at the right place.

    The first book, I had years and years and years to work stuff out. I would run into a wall, pound pound, take sixth months off and come back to it with new ideas.

    I am still not really happy with how some of how book 1 worked but, I figured, if I don’t go with it, it will never go.

    So, obviously, not that much time to pound things out this time around.

    So that’s a big part of the betas. Do some parallel brain processing using beta demons heads to accelerate the process.


    I think I understand what they mean. I have a hard time going through that part. I have a very strong desire to skip it.


    OK, I get the roller coaster over the top.

    But now the deeper question of this plot line.

    Is it that the mission, at this point seems a little “throw away” and to be fair, for J&G it is, they are being drug on an expedition to get them out of Freehold.

    OR is it the characters themselves. Are they boring without Tom? Are they too one dimensional without him.

    In this book, I don’t do a deep in character for Jenn. The only deep in character I really do for Gastrope’ is the stuff at the fort.

    I do need the stuff at the fort to discover the link to Tizzy so I can pull Astlanian’s back after the party.

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