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@Tizzy
First, it was Ramses’ Place.
If it was true that Exador had vissited it many times, then he should have not not assesed the design on the floor (he did to see if it was some sort of magical trap), or take much interest of the carvings.
Also, Exador doesn’t seem to stay that much in the Abyss. Not to mention he is in a potential enemy territory so he should have been more vigilant and take notice of such things.
Well, air conditioning is not everywhere in Abyss, I think, is it? Also, Exador doesn’t think much about such things but pay attention to the carvings? The furnitures? The floor? Even the size of the room?
As for temperatures.
This might be a game of semantics, but near the boiling point of water, means a bit lower or [b]higher[/b] than the boiling point of water, you only take the lower end when you say about 190-200 F.
You also not quite correct in comparing the circumstances of outdoor escalators to the circumstances of the Abyssal escalators. For one, most of the time outdoor elevators aren’t exposed to heat. Half of the day is night and the highest temperature happens only for a few hours in midday. Early morning and twilight isn’t really that hot. In the Abyss, the hight temperature is constant.
Second, the heat often comes from the sun which only affects the surface of the escalators, not to mention many have roofing or is mounted on the ground which often is cooler than the surrounding. Not so in the Abyss.
As for humans existing in such temperatures… they should have died of heat stroke.
Now, the cooling runes should work but who, and how do they maintain the magic? As you say, very few demons know magic. Only a handful really. And they being high and mighty, I don’t think, they would be going allover the city checking the runes without an exuberant amount of payment.
As I say, this issue is really not justifiable. The circumstances just don’t make for it. It doesn’t matter much really. Many stories has such stuff (like superhero stories), and is often just hand waved, and readers just does’t mind. Just be careful, it may become stupid and absurd, just like the movie where Superman turns back time.
This forum is real alright.
Though how come people aren’t able to figure it out? The shapeshiftt happen in front of their eyes.
Well here is my list:
1. The stench. When Tom first arrived in the Abyss, he tried breathing with his mouth to avoid it. While we are talking about it, I also noticed an inconsistency. People who arrive there (Jenn, Gastrope, Maelen, Rupert) never note it. A minor thing but still a flaw.
2. Lack of amenities. Even though there are amenities for demon kind, most of it is in the Court of Chaos, which means humans would not be able to use. There is also a decidedly lack of water.
3. Hostile terrain. With its lava, fires, jets and fireballs; the land is decidedly not a human would like to thread.
4. Demons. Humans fear demons in Astlan, any idea of visiting the demons land is out of question.
5. The heat. Even though some like Tallarius has an armour to protect him, and wizards could cast a cool spell, none of this would be comfortable or practical in the long term. Wearing the armor all the time just isn’t practical and the catnip spell would soon give out.
I really suspect the truthfulness of your statements.
Not to mention you would have angered the Gods for appropriating the sacrifice.
If you had them miffed then you wouldn’t have been able to party.
Repeated offense also wouldn’t cool their heads.
Not all know the same things, but that does not mean some don’t know the same thing. Even if knowledge is not that democratic, that doesn not mean that those with the means can’t get the knowledge. The C.O.D. is rather powerful spell and is known to permanently kill demons. Why won’t powerful wizards not expend some gold to acquire such knowledge? Not only that, many people are shown to know C.O.D.. Rupert know about it, that poor wizard who cast it certainly know about it. Jehanna know about it. The magic world might not be democratic, but C.O.D. is quite popular and well known enough.
Things you told about Lenamare and magic practices might be true, however iff the knowlege of C.O.D. is readily taught to the students, then the knowledge should have been long acquired by the masters. C.O.D. seems to be one of the spells that isn’t keep secret.
Well, Exador has the necessary knowledge. He might be a cheater but he did control the C.O.D., which means he did have the knowledge. It is quite surprising that he doesn’t use his knowledge to more destructive ways or invented the bomb. He is a demon… a violent one. He is also one of the most likely to be able to figure out Lenamare’s bomb for he already has the knowledge of its mechanics.
There is also the fact that Lenamare doesn’t make a secret of the bomb. He even told Jenn how it works.
Its also not about the student but the implication. If a student can acquire the knowledge and is being given the knowledge by the teachers, then many shoud have known.
As for the heat. [-x
Yes some electrical devices can stand heat especially ones that are designed to… like your example. However many electronic devices aren’t. Household switches, electric outlets, lamps, surge protectors, etc. are not meant to operate in high temperatures. The materias they are made of will likely deteriorate. Most are made of plastic so would have melted.
Also elevators and cars contain electronic components.
Also many materials can’t stand high temperatures. And many scenes contain objects that should have not survived.
Wood would dry up, warp and crack but Ramses is playing a piano and probably the doors described in the Abyss are made of wood.
Many fabrics would degrade in prolonged exposure to heat. Silk especially is particularly sensitive. Yet Antefalken decorate his den with “silks and other soft cloths.” He is also seen flying wearing leather. Of course there are those demons that play dress up.
Jewelry, which Antefalken also decorated his den with, is also a concern . Many jewels are heat resistant but many like pearls, opals, coral, and amber would get damaged. Enamels could get ruined.
Many adhesives isn’t designed for extreme heat like wood glue and epoxy. As many modern devices depends on such adhesives, they will ultimately fail.
There is no mention of paints, but there probably be, well at least, car paint, and most paint don’t get along with heat very well. Lacquers, varnish, shellacs and other various finishes doesn’t take well to heat too.
There is also rubber tires. It would have melted long ago.
Another thing that should have been damaged by the heat are alcoholic drinks. There is a scene where Antefalken is wander in the Abyss carrying a bottle of wine, not to mention, it must have been stored in the Abyss somewhere for sometime. It would have been cooked or sour. There is also a scene where Boggy consume a truly prodigious amount of alcohol. Exposed to heat, alcohol in the beverages tend to evaporate, many also spoil. Whatever the beverage was, it would have been spoiled for being stored in the Abyss for so long.
Then there is the corrosive sulfurous air. The silver trimings should have tarnished long ago. Iron and steel would not last long either.
Well, many buidings aren’t standing and many objects aren’t in good condition but many would not have functioned there in the first place.
Really this error can’t be justified.
What you are saying is inconsistent with the book.
[quote]”Scum!” shouted Boggy. “You took the wine!”[/quote]
It is clear that what they are drinking is wine.
[quote]An odd thought crossed his mind. If the ambient temperature of the Abyss was about the boiling point of water, then how was this coffee simply steaming? In his mouth it felt like coffee or hot chocolate, it was hot. So exactly how hot was this stuff?[/quote]
The Denubian Choco-Coffee(TM) is clearly hotter than the boiling point of water.
[quote]Boggy made his way over to Antefalken’s table, carefully guarding his choco-coffee against spillage. By his movements, Antefalken noted a severe hangover on Bogsworth’s part. For a demon, that indicated a truly prodigious amount of alcohol. The equivalent of a couple gallons of pure grain spirits at the least. Boggy sat down clumsily, across from Antefalken.[/quote]
He is drunk because of alcohol.
As for airconditioning and temperature control:
>There was not mention of that in the book so it is quite good to assume that its not there.
>Even if the temperature is half what it is elsewhere, that is still hot enough to damage wood.
>Well, if Ramses does use magic to control temperature that doesn’t explain how the other instances of use of wood is protected like the western style door in ‘The Ripe Young Maiden’s Surprise’ and other more heat susceptible materials like plastics and raber and Antefalken’s silk and soft farics.
>What happens when Ramses left the Abyss for sometime? Won’t the temperature cntrlling spell get despelled?
>also for knowing how to preserve things. Ramses might know, but would other demons know?
>also if those things impossible things are a sign of power and wealth then those “gutless sycophants, and court lackeys and hangers-on who had nothing better to do” and Antefalken who is just a bard whould not have been able to have those dress ups, wine and silk becuase they don’t have the power to be able to preserve them in the Abyss once they got them.
And that book two quote is cheating. It should have been in book one not book two. For Tom to ask it at that moment and not when he was confronting those western doors, and probably tables, chairs walls, ceilings and floors is ridiculous.
Also, when it comes to wood, it is not only temperature but also humidity. In a very dry atmosphere, the wood would also dry up, warp and crack. The piano has to be in proper temperature and humidity or it would not last long.
As for the plants, they are local flora hence should have adapted to the local. So those plants should not be that difficult to grow in the Abyss as they are indigenous there.
And note that there are no trees in Ramses’ garden as noted by Exador.
Your justification is that, these are show of power but the weakness is those demons of no power still have those conveniences, especially clothing and wood. These things should have not been wide spread if your justification is true and it also doesn’t make sense that those higher up demons would supply such magics to abbide the lesser demons vanity.
[quote]yes, there are some oversights, that’s why T-A-G is going to do a beta reader program next time, but a number of these things that don’t seem logical are there on purpose. Some of these questionable things may be answered later, some may not, but the ones that are not–well they might be mistakes, but they might also be things left for the reader’s imagination. I.e. a puzzle, why/how would this ever work? What could be going on?[/quote]
Tizzy! Did you just give me hand wave?
Well, don’t worry. The book is still mighty fine even with the flaws. So don’t sweat.
Weeelllllll. Demons and Wizards are more similar that you think. It does say something doesn’t it.:-“
Well, you started it when you ask who the “demons of Astlan” are. You seem to imply that the demons pointed out are the wizzards not the demons since demons live in the Abyss. I pointed out that there are demons who do live in Astlan which might be what the title is pointing to.
As for scaring the crap out of the people in Astlan, I don’t have to fear it. If you have dictated the story as you suggest, then these events are already done. Nothing I said would add anything.
Still, Tom should consider a more invisible means of doing what he is doing. Even if you keep silent about it, the mechanics is quite obvious. Bringing attention to it by using very vissible arrows isn’t really going to make it confedential. Arrows just basically say LOOK HERE. He really need to develop a more inconspicuous means of doing it.
I’m really not getting your point now.
First, even if they do demon summoning, it is really doubtful that such acts are religious. Even if they use human sacrifices or virgin sacrifices it is surely not for religious purpose.
Second, there are many cultures that do eat their enemy’s flesh, a common practice of cannibalism. However, calling it a sacrifice might be stretching it even if it is done for religious purpose.
It started when Maou makes a comment about virgin sacrifices.
Its not clear if you mean my first point or my second point.
If the first point, well, if they do human sacrifice to summon demons, then it is not religious, evidently. Demons are (often) seen as enemies of gods so any offering to them is antireligious.
If the second, well, the practice you indicated isn’t cannibalism. Most don’t eat their enemies flesh as sacrifice to gods but to absorb their enemies strengths and powers.
@Tizzy
It is not because the narrator know about quarks. It is because the wizards know about quarks. Hell, I could almost generalize that Astlanians know about quarks:
[quote]
Naturally, a theoretical magic student may wonder at what happens to the incredible amounts of binding energy that are released in this occurrence.[/quote]It is clear that the said student isn’t the narrator, and it is also clear that the student learn it from a Wizard and many would have known about it since on of its application the [b]Cloud of Disintegration[/b] is rather a wellknown spell as noted by being known not only by Exador and Lenamare but also the young ones like Rupert and the soldiers. Also note that it talked also about “[i]incredible amount of energy[/i]” which is rather describes properly what nuclear reactions are like. Then, dumbly, later, not one wizard, even the ones of higher orders (even Exador with millinias of study), can work out how Lenamare’s little explosion work, which is a nuclear bomb, which uses nuclear reactions “[i]incredible amount of energy[/i]” to work, even when it was explained to them how it works. This mishap is rather subtle but it is still a mistake.
And there are mistakes that are more into your face… but I like the story very much so I give it a pass.
@Madfox
It is not really given in the book but it seems that Demons have been taking many toys from modern Earth, our Earth. Elevators, escalators, textiles, furniture, appliances, cars, etc.
Of course this is another mistake. Many of our devices aren’t really meant to work at high temperatures. Since the Abyss is where humans would cook to crisp if they ever go there, such devices would not have survived there either. Elevator circuitry would have fizzled, escalators would have grind itself, textiles would have disintegrated, furniture would have dried and crack if its made of wood, or melt if made of plastic, appliances, which often contains plastic and very sensitive components, would not last long, and cars would have thier tires, upholstery and gadgetry melting, etc. The scene there really doesn’t make sense.
