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In some mythos that is correct. For example in Hinduism it is the physical incarnation of a deity in the “real world” i.e. come down from heaven.
When I was younger I used to explain (to others bewilderment) that both Jesus and The Holy Ghost/Spirit were avatars of God (the Father) or Creator. Jesus being the physical avatar and the Holy Spirit/Ghost the astral projection/spiritual avatar. The latter also being consistent with the HS being the “Word Of”
However, in other mythologies and many Fantasy/SF books it is a god’s representative.
As I have defined it here, I use the broader Fantasy/SF literature version.
So in Astlanian terminology an avatar is either a Saint, Archon, Angel, Prophet, etc. Someone that acts with the deity’s authority.Now of course, this is (could) also (be) an Apostle, Emissary, Ambassador, Agent
“D’Wargs!” Valg’s mother shouted upon seeing a huge outpouring of giant winged wargs in addition to the horde of D’Orcs. There were none of the legendary creatures in Nysegard; yet all knew of their legendary prowess and loyalty.
Bingo on the paganism. The Greeks and Romans were polytheistic. You recognize all the gods of your pantheon, and you may even pray to them/venerate them. However, typically, you chose one as your patron deity.
Now, the great secret to the Catholic Church’s (which literally means Universal Church) success at eliminating paganism:
The reason the Catholic/Orthodox churches have saints was to replicate polytheism when absorbing/converting pagan cultures. You see this very easily in the conquest of the Americas because it’s documented; however, they did it all over the world going back to the conquest of Rome by the Church.
Typically, the local god/goddess gets a very similar/analogous saint who the local people then choose as their patron saint. It was an extremely ingenious method of coopting other religions.
Now of course, all these saints had statues and were venerated by people praying to the saints. The Orthodox church, upon splitting with Rome decried this as idolotry, which they feel is forbidden by anti-idolatry doctrines right back to the ten commandments.
So, they banned statues of saints; instead they used icons, paintings/frescos/mosaics. These are paintings of the saints and serve the exact same function, but they are not idols; so all is good.
Now of course, while there is much argument in church text they all go back to the ten commandments.
However, the two that are of interest are
Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shall not make unto thee any graven imageInterestingly enough, I like to note “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” it does not say you cannot have other gods “after me” I.e. sub gods, or other secondary/lesser deities. He just has to be first and supreme.
Now, graven image gets immediately tied to the golden calf story and that’s the origin of much of the idolatry stuff; however, icons would also fail in this sense, but there are crap loads of theological arguments one way and the other.
BUT, the big point that the “pagan” vs Christian movement forgets is that, at the time of the ten commandments, it was widely accepted that there were other gods; however, the Israelites were not allowed to worship or venerate them above/before the burning bush.
And as you probably have all figured out, the burning bush is the Demi-Urge, and Sammael is The Adversary of the Demi-Urge; and he’s the guy that kicked the Nyjyr Ennead off of Earth.
Those seem to start getting too long, think of cover real estate.
Faithless Gods starts sounding like Faithless Electors which is something I was looking for a miracle from that did not emerge…
However, Faithless Gods might work.
I am actually starting to think of punting on the title by simply saying The Demons of Astlan shall continue…
Yes, there is much more to come including battle scenes, hoping to have all of that done this week.
Ah, the 50 or 17 comment on commas.
Fair point, however, I note that he does “think in commas, clauses and semi-colons” go back to book 1 and all his pontificating.
He is extremely well read (He’s me when I was 17 except with a much better head of hair–I was going bald in HS–still am it’s just a really slow balding process)
That was actually the real point of the book in the first place. I was a “read it all/seen it all” SF/Fantasy nut and I wanted to write something I hadn’t read before with a plot and conclusion that I didn’t know the end of by the first chapter.
Of course, the problem with that “not knowing the end after reading chapter 1” thing? I didn’t know the ending after writing chapter 1. Two edged sword.
Of course, I did know the end after Verigas or so, but then I just had no clue how to get there.
Anyway, will work on that sentence.
As for the time skip…I would love to do that, and may do it for some…but here are the problems.
Inferno is getting new passengers and then moving on. As you might have noted, Melissance & her boy toy have talked their way on board (and of course the boy toy is actually her husband in disguise at the request of Asmodeus and Lilith) so there is definitely some story advancement there…but I can get a day or two out of contract negotiations…
Teragdor etal can stand apostle training, and really, they are all dreadfully killing time, because they literally aren’t going anywhere as the undead army approaches. (other than back to Fort Murgatroid for bits)
Rupert and Fer Rog are on a pretty long journey, so that’s not a big problem. Similar for Ragala and Farsooth (who we have not seen in some time, but he’s doomalogue hunting as well)
Tal Gor is the problem. He is at that big funky place on the map, at the heart of which is the Astlan Doomalogue, they are within a day of it. The Nimbus is overhead, circling as are alvaran patrols. There is going to be interaction, sure I can probably kill a day or so but…they are going to run into each other one way or the other and then we have stuff happening…and that’s where I fear running out of room….
In theory, and by the rules of the spells/rituals, yes.
However, regular wizards would never think to do this, much, simply because they do not understand what they are really doing.
Now, that being said, someone like Merit-Ptah, who has a pretty good idea of what she’s doing, at least more than most wizards was able to shape Reggie to a very pleasing form. How much of that was wrapped in her idea of an incubus, and real knowledge that Reggie had been human is unclear.
Now, of course, a demon wizard like Exador could certainly do it.
However, you would probably want to make other changes as well, part of what makes a demon super powerful is your impression of them, how hard they struggle, all that stuff that Boggy & Tizzy explain in Book 1.
So under the scenario you are talking about, you would probably end up with an under-powered demon. At least if it was a random subject.
I love Sorkinistic dialogue!
Seriously, wonder how much it would cost a (democratic obviously) president to hire him as a speech writer?
I remember seeing this movie at my (defunct) local video store that specialized in foreign and hard to come by videos.
It was on my list, circa 2008-2010 although a bit down, and I even had tons of credits that never got used before it closed. I’d gotten overwhelmed with DVR content and pretty much stopped going there since I had too much to watch. So never got to.
Actually, digital content makes me so lazy. I have piles of unwatched DVDs and Blu-Rays, but its just too much work to get up sort through them and walk over to the BR player and stick them in. Netflix and Amazon are soooo much easier.
Same is true for CDs; although I did rip about half or more, but my library is so huge and filled with duplicates that I end up doing pandora, spotify or Amazon Music Player and some time youtube.
Today it’s not longer not just about content, it’s also about convenient access to content.
People today have it too easy. In my father’s day they had to march ten miles to the film library, uphill both ways, to check out a print and then come home, thread the film, light the arc lamp and turn the hand crank on the projector. And unless you had another family member working with you as you threaded the film, you usually ended up burning the popcorn in the kettle in the fireplace.
Typically the cost would be too high. That’s the big thing about the loyalty and vassalage system there.
I do think this would be a very interesting topic to pursue somewhere, like a side book, politics are pretty complex, particularly when it’s hard to have a permanent accident and the accidentee will have a grudge for a very long time. As will his/her higher up who may have plans impeded/inconvenienced.
Also, permanently slaying other demons is sort of a a no no. At least of the higher up ones, who belong to someone else. I.e. you do not destroy other people’s permanent assets without repercussions.
So, in short, it’s a very tricky calculation to determine when/what and how far you can move against the agents of your peers. You can certainly do it, but depending on how it is done and the circumstances, the repercussions may be extremely problematic.
So much like politics, it’s often best to move very indirectly, untraceably and at the best time. Which interestingly, is how things work among the gods as well. We see this game with the Five Siblings and Sentir Fallon killing Orcus. They have a story and they are sticking to it, that they no nothing of Tartarus and so did not put the multiverse in jeopardy.
Excellent point, at a bare minimum this has to be discussed at the beginning.
Gut is that they have done some testing in secret, but it’s still a true maiden voyage to the Abyss, or any non-material plane.
Being Oorstemoth, they would have gone through lots and lots of drills/tests and checklists.
Could be….however, to be fair demons have been summoned longer than that…
I mean Tizzy and Orcus had to get there somehow, as did the other demon princes…presumably. Lilith and Sammael may be the exceptions. Or maybe not.
