Question about creating D’Orcs

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    I agree with GameGraphix on the whole loosing potential D’Orcs issue.

    how Orcus solved that problem should be included.

    i can think of two ways.

    a soul pool where any mortal souls orcus was linked to go when they die.

    or Orcus prelinking them if they were promising orcs so they would go staight to the abyss to get revived.

    that Orc that fought in ragnarok was the one that said he got killed in that fight.
    If Orcus did not have a second way of creating Orcs.
    he should’t exist.

    About the mana pool i think by the time they go to the isle of doom it just started to generate excess mana recently. so the amount of excess mana they have is too low.

    most of it is currently keeping the Doomplex running excess going to powering up the doomalogues.

    which may be the reason they had to use the ritual.

    no excess mana to just sap the D’Orc to be.


    Ah, but The older demons may have been formed by other means. All we really know is that modern demons are most likely from the modern spell. Maybe older demons were created by other means.


    Yes, agreed you are all getting there.

    At some point in the past (I think) I mentioned the use of anima jars in battle.

    You had to do “last rights” on the dying orc, and the shaman would use an anima jar to capture the soul, which would then be taken to the Doomalogue after battle (typically). There would be a similar but different ritual done then, basically the last half, the “incarnating part” because you already had the soul trapped in the jar.

    Also, in this scene, the weed and dancing and huge amounts of people were needed to generate mana to infuse in the new D’Orc. This ceremony (and this should be explained) is much closer to the “pre Mount Doom” method of D’Orcing.

    Once Mount Doom was fully operational and there were Doomalogues, Orcus had a lot of mana on hand.

    Note that Tizzy says he eventually stopped coming to the ceremonies as they got more boring/standardize with less partying…more like a church service. Tizzy likes parties.

    Now as to pulling mana across planes. Tom is doing that via the Rod of Tommus which is tightly bound to Mount Doom (and thus the Doomalogues). In principle he can do this with out the Rod, but the rod is a very powerful conduit, much like the Shaman Staffs.

    Eventually they will get it worked out where the Shaman Staffs can channel mana from Doom as well, with limits set by Tom and the shaman’s abilities.

    BUT–> Mana across planes and the Doomalogues are VERY Important to the last 20% and in fact, the explanation for how Lilith so “easily” gummed up the works will become more evident in the last 20%.


    Could be….however, to be fair demons have been summoned longer than that…

    I mean Tizzy and Orcus had to get there somehow, as did the other demon princes…presumably. Lilith and Sammael may be the exceptions. Or maybe not.


    From memory, in book 2 there where discussions about how Ocrus would create D’Orcs from from Orcs warriors that had died in battle….I got the impression that was something that could be done quickly during the heat of battle….but when Tom creates the first new D’Orc shaman this is a long involved process that needed a lot of preparation….and demon weed

    Also, the need to be on a different plane then the orc that died when be making a D’Orc……wouldn’t that stop Orcus or Tom being able to create D’Orcs from orcs that had died fighting beside Orcus / Tom in a battle….you could easily lose a valuable fighter this way???


    Well, the demon weed is just to loosen the soul so if the person is dead then the soul is already loose. The prep & ceremony is just to gather mana. I have no idea why Mount Doom’s mana pool wasn’t enough though.


    Hadn’t thought about Mount Doom’s mana pool….but that brings up another question / thought…

    A big part of book 2 was about restarting Mount Doom, and how it was a mana engine to supply mana to Orcus…..there has been no mention of Tom learning to access Mount Doom’s mana pool from other planes….


    I agree it kind of bothered me that they had to have all this preparation for a orc to become a D’orc when they had orcs fighting and dying all over the multiverse, I kind of pictured it like the soul being taken to or transported to some hidden chamber at doom from where they were and being reborn there. Or kind of like how the saints were created


    I suspect it’s two different things:

    1. The Demon weed was only needed to get Orc soul to the astral plane, just like was needed when Tom got demonized by Lenamare. If the Orc had died the link he had to Tom would alert him he’d died and could be turned in to a D’orc
    2. The ritual was only needed for the Mana requirement, which as Tizzy pointed out, is higher when done by Animage compaired to Wizard. The other people who took weed was just so they could witness it on astral plane as it was such a big deel being the 1st one in 4,000 years. Orcus would have had the mana generating capacity of Mount Doom and 666 Doomalogues powering him and could just do it on the fly when he sensed someone die via the gazillion links he’s created. As stated as soon as Mount Doom broke even on the mana generation, it immediately started using it to get the Doonalogues working so Tom doesn’t yet have access to any Mana generation



    From what he said, I have the impression they exist in the Abyss and he’s just using them.

    The “D” things aren’t unique to Orcus, he’s just the first to really start creating demons out of orcs (that we know of)

    For one big thing, very few non-demons have any idea where demons come from. And the exact details of making them may not be well known even to demons.


    That raises an interesting idea. Tizzy & Orcus had to experiment to create D’Orcs. A ritual that is basically the same as modern demon binding. So… where did modern demon binding come from? Parallel evolution of the spell or did the D’Orc version form the basis of the modern version? Perhaps a leak by Tizzy as part of a 4000 year plot?


    Well, I got the impression that the D’Rachnids were the equivalent of driders. Also, if Vulcan has his own and uses them elsewhere then someone else probably brought them to the Abyss and Mount Doom is just employing them.

    Edit: I suppose they could have been created by Athena and Arachne was simply the first or most famous.


    I see that makes sense, but what about the D’wargs how did they get chosen and what was the criteria for the choice. On that matter what about the D’Rachnids


    I think the answer is found in the fact that you are overestimating how many D’Orcs got made.

    Only the best of the best made it. So not every orc that died in battle got D’Orc’d. Generally only the greatest most legendary/fiercest ones made the cut.

    As Talarius ponders. D’Orcs are like orc Saints. So on any given world there are not that many. It’s not valhalla, although they probably got the idea from there.

    We don’t know (yet) how many D’Orcs there were. You really do not need that many to kick mortal butts, they are almost all higher level demon types. They did not bother with lower level (demon level) D’Orcs. of course, born D’Orcs would be lower level to begin with.

    So, yes, they did lose a lot of potential D’Orcs, but given that you generally never need to replace them, you can afford to be choosy as to who you let into the club.

    Mount Doom was fully operational for about 50,000 year. At just 2 D’Orcs per year, that’s 100,000 D’Orcs. And the oldest ones? Very old by current demon standards (lots of reasons why/interesting esoterical discussion at some point)

    Ramses and Exador are only around 3 to 4 thousand years old (Ramses II the Great, aka Ozymandias, aka “Red Sea ate my army” is about 3,300+ years dead) . Darg Krallnom is over 60,000 years old. He is far more powerful than we are led to believe, so far. Same with Arg-nargoloth.

    Other than Shamans, most orcs aren’t interesting in magic, so same for D’Orcs. So a lot of them aren’t spell users/mana users. But after 30,000 to 50,000 you’ve picked up a trick or two and are probably very innately magical (beyond normal demon)

    That being said, Orcus needed an army to fight gods and Lilith and Sammael (if need be).

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