[Tizzy]

😉 That’s a good question. Hmmmmm

It should be addable…I know I can add emoticons…somehow…

I like your theories. I’m going to go ahead and approve them as fact.

Hmm, I don’t have a wikipedia account to publish them as fact…but I suppose I can get one.

That is after all, how facts are established.

“So let it be written in wikipedia, so let it be done” as the Pharaohs used to say.

[Tizzy]

Except that Exador would not note such things in Exador’s palace.

Air conditioning would be considered obvious to him in such a place with fine furnishings, and he’d been there before. I.e. he’s several thousand years old, and has a penthouse in the courts that he air conditions for his nice things. (well, I assume he does, I know he has nice things and that he has a penthouse in the courts…never been there though)

Thus he would not “note” a temperature drop, because he’d expect such a drop. Plus, if he’s in human form, not demon form (as he was/always is) the odder thing would be the high temperature for his human body (however–the bodies just look human, they are no less rugged than a demon form)

Tom would note the issues you mention, but he didn’t go inside…about the only nice place he’s been in the Abyss is the bar/cafe, and that place is about the same temperature as the streets.

Also, demons really/generally don’t notice temperature as much as humans, we can notice it, but our bodies have such a wide range of operating temps that it’s not that big a deal. What you call “Freezing” and “Scorching” we call “Cool” and “Warm” or “Stuffy” maybe.

[Tizzy]

It’s not that demons can’t feel changes it’s just not as big a deal.

The situation at Ramses is more like, you are out in the hot sun and then you go into a mall and it’s air conditioned. You don’t really think of it other than “oh, that feel’s good” you just take it for granted.

Unless of course, you live in Florida, in which case you walk into a mall or supermarket and suddenly icicles are forming on your sweaty close because they’ve cranked the temperature down to about 35 degrees.

But everywhere else…you just sort of expect it.

So you are saying maybe I should go around asking other demons if I am the Demon Overlord? My question is, if they know I’m the demon overlord, why have they never told me before? I don’t like my subjects keeping secrets like this from me.

So, anyway back to temperatures…

Typically Abyss temperature is near (but not at) the boiling point of water, that is 212 F, 100 C. So about means around 190-200 F

I’ve said the Courts are routinely about half that so between 95-100 degrees. Which is a very reasonable temperature for Phoenix AZ during late spring through early Fall. It can easily be 115 during August. And the Abyss, which is ambient at 190, is far drier than Phoenix, and with heat (for people) humidity is huge.

So humans can certainly exist in the Courts, perhaps not comfortably (and air quality is not ideal), but they can. And escalators can work fine there too. They have plenty of outdoor escalators in Phoenix at 115.

Now pop in some runes of coldfire inside buildings and the temps can readily be around 70F very easily.

[Tizzy]

OK,

So if you are going to get that technical on the “near the boiling point of water” what if I were to note that the boiling point of water various by altitude…

And altitude varies greatly in the Abyss, as you may have noticed. Actually it varies by atmospheric pressure, so what we really need to look at is, what is the atmospheric pressure of the Abyss at “Sea Level”?

Now, I haven’t seen too many seas laying around the Abyss, so let’s assume at Styx level.

The Courts are quite a bit higher than the Styx, Tom’s cave even higher, the mountains with snow are many leagues tall.

So anyway…the point being, I was bad in saying that the boiling point of water is 212. Only on Earth at sea level does water boil at that temperature.

For that matter, we don’t know the atmospheric pressure in Astlan as sea level. So…we really have no idea what the boiling point of water is in Astlan.

Obviously, alchemists and chemists know, and presumably wizards/animages etc know.

However, I don’t.

I am also not aware of anyone with a thermometer in the Abyss.

So, technically, for all we know, “near the boiling point of water” could be 160 degrees Fahrenheit, if the atmospheric pressure was like 30000 feet on earth. Although, if that were the case we’d probably have a lot more humans gasping for breath as well as having heatstroke.

On the other hand, maybe it’s 220 degrees?

But…whatever the temperature, and whether it’s logical or not…all I can report on is what I (and others) observe

Oh, and there is no sun in the Abyss, it’s mostly ambient, or the flaming balls, volcanoes, lava flows etc heating things up.

It also gets cooler at night in the Courts, just like it gets darker. Probably not super cool, but if you pay attention, it does get cooler.

Well, I think T-A-G has been pretty explicit about humans dying of heatstroke without cooling spells. Plenty of discussion about air conditioned dungeons used to store humans.

I don’t think the turning back time will help.

1) Never seen a demon fly that fast
2) If the demon goes up in space, how would it’s wings work? Assuming there is a vacuum up there–no idea…
3) I really have no proof that the Abyss is even round/spherical. As far as I can tell, it seems pretty flat…and we have no sun or moon to see crescents etc.
4) Nor do I have any indication that it’s rotating…

So, I think we are safe from turning back time…

Unless Cher is a demon….but technically, I think she said “If I could turn back time.” Implying that she can’t.

Although she does sort of dress like Lillith. Hmmmm…

[Tizzy]

Well the events are ongoing…

There may not be people aware of such things “naturally” until book 3 or 4, or maybe never if they aren’t in the loop. But you might expedite the process…assuming they could read my imaginary “forum posts” which I am being told by others here in the Abyss are all hallucinatory.

[Tizzy]

You mean when Tom does it at the end of V1?

Yes, that tied to some other things has the Council in particular really nervous. Oh, and the Rod as well…

[Tizzy]

Ok, now you’re going to really spook people with talk of changelings and illusionary faeries.

Thankfully, I have a nice pair of rose colored glasses that always show me the truth as I want to see it, so such concerns do not bother me.

[Tizzy]

Picky picky picky, you are starting to sound like Talarius.

That is an interesting point on the stench. At least, so I’m told, after this long, I’m sort of acclimatized to the smell of brimstone, sulfur and similar nasty chemicals.

However, to be fair…Tom’s cave is pretty high up and there aren’t a lot of fireballs happening there or near there so the sulfur and brimstone would not be so bad…plus there is some sweet rotting dragon scent and musk left in the air.

However, I think it was the heat that had most of their attention so the stench wasn’t such a big deal, but yes…it is strange, given how much they like to whine, that they didn’t whine about that.

[Tizzy]

Well clearly the stench comment would have been made or thought by the humans (maybe not Rupert)

So that is clearly the fault of T-A-G.

Common, where is your sense of adventure?

OK, maybe you aren’t ready to emigrate there, but a vacation perhaps?

We have great beaches! (Almost all beach, very little water) And if you think Earth has great hot water springs, you should see the Abyss’s mountain hot springs are even better!

[Tizzy]

Well…

No, what I’m saying is that they do it for religious purposes for their gods…according to the history books in your world.

It just so happens, they were not trying to summon me, but if I am out wandering and see something that looks like an invitation to a party…hey…I’ll take it!

And so I just showed up. I suppose not that unlike what happened to poor Verigas when Tom showed up.

Except this was on a low mana plane so they needed a human sacrifice to power the summons, I heard it/intercepted it and voila!

And as I mentioned, I was wearing my feathered head dress at the time, and with my long slinky body, they decided I was Queztlecuatl and so subsequently liked to summon me for parties…

[Tizzy]

Me?

I am the most honest demon in the Abyss!

Well, yes, they may have been a bit miffed, but they weren’t the first over inflated mana bags that have been annoyed with me.

If I had a silver penny for every time an all powerful individual wanted to wipe me off the multiverse—well, it’d be about the same because i’d have bought Denubian Choco-Coffee(TM) with it…money just runs through my fingers…and I’ve got a lot of fingers for it to run through!

[Tizzy]

Yes, but something always comes up and I’ve always escaped, diverted them.

I suppose someday I may not be so lucky.

Smody and Sammy really don’t like me. Lillith isn’t a big fan either.

[Tizzy]

So…not all of them are errors.

Boggy did have a bottle of what looked like wine to Tom. But don’t assume it was human wine made out of grapes. It was a glass wine bottle with a liquid in it.

The main thing he got drunk on was the Denubian Choco-Coffee(TM) and that is served at roughly the boiling point of water.

As for Ramses estate…it’s very much air conditioned and climate controlled. The ArchDemons really have no problem with this. Cold Fire is well known. It’s basically Anti-Fire, an absence of heat. For high powered demons (including Tom) who can control fire, they can also control anti-fire, that which we call Cold Fire.

{In fact, as they observe in “The Almight Johnson’s” (syfy/netflix/New Zealand show about Norse gods) at one point–“Cold burns, very much like fire.”}

As I’ve said before, the ambient temperature in the Courts is about half what it is elsewhere, and if you go inside, it’s even cooler in most places.

Here’s the thing, humans know that to preserve things, like food, old documents, you have to have some climate control, it seems to me that a demon who lives for thousands of years, would also figure this out after a few attempts and thus compensate.

What I think is happening is you are seeing half empty glasses rather than half full glasses.

If you see stuff, like the piano, you should assume that this is a sign of the owner’s power and wealth. They can afford to have and maintain something that shouldn’t exist where they are. Therefore, if it exists, and it shouldn’t, there must be something going on, say in the background that you aren’t aware of.

So case in point from book 2:

[quote]The plateau was about twenty feet in diameter, just sufficiently big that they could all land on it. Tizzy with Talarius, Rupert, Tom and Antefalken the bard. Tom looked over at the bard who was putting his harp away; he had had it out batting away arrows when they had been banished from the city.
“How do you keep the wood from drying out?” Tom suddenly asked. “I’d think this place would be literally ‘Hell’ on it.
The bard smiled mischievously. “It’s Denubian Wormwood. It’s quite at home in these environments. Takes a bit of Denubian worm slime now and then, but that’s it.”
“Same place as the Choco-Coffee?” Rupert asked.
Antefalken shook his head, “You forgot the TM. Denubian Choco-CoffeeTM.” Antefalken corrected. “The Denubians get very picky about their trademarks.”
“Sorry.” Rupert said.
[/quote]

So there you have an answer on wood. Perhaps the piano was made of the same wood, or similar…or as I said maybe he’s got really good cooling.

And if fact…it is my belief that this is the case. You will note (as i recall) there are plants and trees on his estate (recall the greek like demons wandering around gardening and doing things). Those don’t grow that well here either.

From what I understand, his estate/enclave is sort of a biosphere with better temperatures inside for his gardens and palace.

So in fact, one of the things that should be making an impression is, what Tom would be up against if he were to get on the wrong side of the ArchDemons.
These guys are basically mini-demigods, with large infrastructures and lots of power. Tom’s got a dumpy cave.

But the power of the ArchDemons is nothing to the power of the Demon Princes who have carved out the Courts of Chaos, and the power of the Demon Princes is nothing compared to the power of the Gods, who have carved out entire planes of existence.

So my argument would be, don’t assume that something that doesn’t make sense immediately (like a glass table) is a mistake or an anachronism.

yes, there are some oversights, that’s why T-A-G is going to do a beta reader program next time, but a number of these things that don’t seem logical are there on purpose. Some of these questionable things may be answered later, some may not, but the ones that are not–well they might be mistakes, but they might also be things left for the reader’s imagination. I.e. a puzzle, why/how would this ever work? What could be going on?

[Tizzy]

Peyote for example and many other drugs/plants can induce out of body experiences as can TM (Transcendental Meditation).

Normally, pot probably wouldn’t send you out of body, unless maybe you seriously over do the edibles….Maureen Dowd comes to mind here…

Demon’s have been captured from Earth(s) for thousands of years and many different cultures. We’ve gotten a lot of guru’s and buddhist monks over the years.

TM is the most reliable way, but the hardest because it’s a mental discipline, not unlike that done by animages in Astlan.

—
Well, as for the clothing….you are seriously missing a huge piece of the puzzle on that one. (T-A-G is hiding it from you)

It’s fine for you to question it, in fact you should but it’s not an oversight. To give you a hint, Ramses at one points mentions “dressing the old fashioned way” or similar, after getting out of bed with Bess.

All the lesser demons are naked, most of the really powerful ones are not (at least some of the time) and they certainly go all over the abyss in whatever clothes they have on and don’t have any temperature problems.

The same for immediate possessions, and in some cases, non-immediate possessions. That’s a third case that I didn’t even bring up before.

But that discussion must be saved for later in Book 2, or maybe book 3 at the latest; once Tom figures it out for himself.

Tom didn’t need to mention in Book 1 because he never say the harp in book 1. Yes he knew Antefalken had a harp and other instruments, but hadn’t seen them out in the Abyss, so hadn’t thought of it. Seeing the harp then or there just caused a light bulb to go off. Sometimes people don’t catch/realize incongruities the first time they seem them and only afterwards go “oh!” This was like that.

Also FYI, there are wooden doors and benches in the bar in the Courts.

I should note that Denubian Choco-Coffee(TM) is the only thing that really makes demons drunk. Alcohol doesn’t have a lot of effect on them, unless they driink huge quantities. BloodWine is an exception, and it’s a type of wine but is not made from grapes.

You are right in your quote on Boggy/Antefalken. That was from a very early draft of T-A-G’s and was never updated to be consistent.
it should have read [quote] that indicated a truly prodigious amount of alcohol or a simply prodigious amount of Denubian Choco-Coffee(TM)[/quote]

However, these are Antefalken’s POV words, and he thinks of drunk in terms of alcohol as he’s a bard that hangs out with lots of humans and he himself was human (multiple times in fact–he’d been a demon bard for several centuries before he got incarnated via an Incubus as a reward from a Demon Prince and did the two body thing: one a human in Astlan, the other his demon form and did the Astral travel thing–but that’s another story)

I also agree with Azpen, don’t assume that because something isn’t mentioned, it’s not present. The stench was present even though no one mentioned it. The first time, if the POV was a new human, it should probably have been mentioned, but if the POV was Tom or a demon, others may have noticed but not said.

As I recall most POV was Gastrope’ or Jenn so it should have been mentioned by them when they first crossed over.

However, to head things off in advance: Talarius does not and will not mention it in book 2 because
1) he’s in an environmentally controlled suit of armour
2) he knows it is supposed to stink of sulfur etc, so it’s just living up to expectations
3) he doesn’t want to admit to any discomfort due to pride.

[Tizzy]

So the question is this:

In the series title “Demons of Astlan”

who exactly are the demons of Astlan?

Technically…I, at least, live in the Abyss, not Astlan.

But….I do seem to spend a lot of time there lately.

[Author]

Posts