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[quote=Puck;5181]Pg 356 ) Citadel of Light, Command Center:Early Fifth Period , First paragraph, Last sentence, the word ‘debated’ is used in lieu of ‘debate’ I think[/quote]
The verbs in the sentence are was and were, so I think debated is correct.
He was standing next to Rasmeth on one side and Grob Darkness Slayer to the other, they were watching as the ten most senior avatars of the Five Siblings on Nysegard calmly debated the battlefield they were all at the center of.
Others?
[quote=Puck;5181]Side side note – Why does Jenn exist : I What did those poor characters do to you to have such a creature inflicted upon them?[/quote]
You mean have Jenn inflicted upon them? Or poor Jenn being inflicted by these illogical beings like Exador, Gastrope’ , Tom and such.
She should be getting better as the story goes along and she learns more; even as Talarius did. Note they both started out being slightly opinionated.
And…even though Jenn does not like Jehenna, Jehenna basically treats Jenn as her protege. On some level Jehenna is going to be rubbing off on her, Jehenna has been Jenn’s main role model since she started schooling.
[quote=Mikey;5183]Also, the poor forgotten hero Rex died horribly only a few in-story weeks ago, didn’t he? It felt like Jenn was lacking some closure on the whole “why do good people die” thingy that’s the bread and butter of the priesthood.
I wonder how long the El Ohim saint school takes…[/quote]
Good point. And while I keep trying to remind people with these day counts, I myself forget this, and it’s important to keep that in mind and perhaps circle back to that.
The problem for me is that Rex died about 23-24 years ago. If people think GRRM is slow…Book 1 was probably started before Game of Thrones…I did the first chapter in like 86 or 87, most of book between 90 and 95 and then finished it in the months before it’s release…
As I’ve said, I could not figure how to force Tom outside the city to battle Talarius. And it finally just hit me after umpteen rereads to a dead end. “Just let Lenamare know about the damn demons in the palace,! he will know how to get rid of them”
Literally the key was “Tell Lenamare about the demons.” “What would Lenamare do?” And at that point I had the answer in like 5 minutes.
[quote=scweeb;5194]But how could it never be mentioned that he has a Son and that oh Rupert who looks like him is because he could be his Grandpa[/quote]
Thanks, yep big battle coming.
Well, the “D’Orcs all knew that Orcus had a son. The prophecy said that Orcus would return with his son. Who, in the prophecy, looks just like him, as he did as Dis Pater’
So that’s why they never ask Tom “Hey reborn Orcus, how’d you manage to get an identical son?” Because they already knew about Orcus’s son, and one assumes that if one announces that a child is his son, that person knows how the son came to be.
So, since Tom was not publicly questioning Rupert being his son, no one else would have either. It’s what they were all expecting.
Now, as to the senior people, the only ones that would really understand what he’s going through are Volund and Phaestus, and because they do know, they are going to let Tom discover things in his own time. You can’t just force this stuff on someone and expect them to just run with it. It takes a long time for people to come to grip with something as huge as this.
Note that none of the D’Orcs have been through the Phoenix Cycle yet. They are all less than 100,000 years old.
Yeah, it’s definitely a bit problematic.
Now, that being said, in the real world, Orcus had worshipers and, in fact, outlasted most of the Olympians in terms of active worshipers because he was very popular in rural areas. New religions, (aka Christianity) invaded the cities (specifically Rome) first and deities that had more rural followings than urban followings lasted longer.
Now of course, Orcus (in my multiverse) was actually dead at this time, but people still worshiped him on Earth, not realizing he had been kaput since about 2000 BC.
I should also add that on Earth, Orcus and Dis Pater were Greek/Roman gods, but were not always considered part of the core “Olympians”
I take it to be that they are Olympians by birth, but don’t hang out on Olympus, and don’t participate in Zeus’ pantheon pool; although presumably they could, they are family.
Note also that there are multiple pantheons of the Egyptian Gods, the Nyjyr Ennead being one of them. It does not include all of the Egyptian deities.
[SPOILER]Very specifically it does not include Set and a few others[/SPOILER]However, as with Hephaestus, gods can belong to as many or few pantheons as they want. The Triad of Memphis has a small pantheon pool of its own (pTah, Sekhmekt, Nefertem)
Very good point.
The big problem with deploying Saintly Knights and such is that it is a much more serious escalation of events–maybe–
A saint that was a knight, is possibly OK on a single mission task, and in fact, that would have been what was sent into battle in “the old days”
but those giant guys in the palaestra, deploying them is essentially an act of war against someone, they are for fighting other gods/pantheons.At this point, the Concord of Conciliation and the Tribunal of Conciliation come into play.
This is where Stainsberry comes into play. Think of him as one of those guys in blue helmets from the UN albeit as Knight Magus he’s also a diplomat and investigator.
So, who they deployed, given the circumstances and rather awkward way the attending archons and prophets all showed up, feeling competitive and guilty for prior under performance, what we see is probably logical.
If things had been operating as they used to on Nysegard, we’d have not had attending archons and prophets. We’d have had a mix of knightly, rangerly, seamanly, and sky wardenly saints.
One of the things you will see in Beta 1, after the Beragamos/Tiernon call is Beragamos berating himself for screwing things up.
Now, in order to deploy the big guys, Tiernon would probably need some proof that other gods were directly attacking his people with their avatars.
One might be able to make a case for them this time, given the oddness of the situation. However, it would be touchy, for now.
What I will point out, however, is clues from earlier books. Maelen and Elrose’ prophecy and visions and one of the appendices.
Gotta break, seeing problems with the site, broken links.
Yeah, those two are probably the worst.
You note their conspicuous absence on the Inferno? Pretty sure Heron ordered them to stay behind lest he strangle them.
He would be more likely to have a spy priest.
By the time he learns what’s going on, he can’t get anyone in. Plus, prior to that he knew the Storm Lords were coming, so that would put an actual saint at risk, plus people might notice unless he’s in hiding (like Beragamos)
What I have planned is for Sentir Fallon to discover that all these avatars are suddenly going to Nysegard and he’s not the one ordering them.
Under any reasonable circumstance where the attending archon and prophet are MIA, it would be him taking over such duties, yet, Tiernon has cut him out of the loop.
This is likely to send him into a panic about being discovered.
I reworked the Tiernon Beragamos “mental phone call” a couple times trying to determine how much danger SF is immediately in.
[quote=GameGraphix;5150]Was going to wait until Beta 1 for the typos – but these jumped out at me..
Chapter 142
Mount Doom: Early Third Period
“By that point we were so close that I didn’t have the [h]heart[/h], to break his [h]heart[/h]” – repetitive use of the word heart sounds a little funny….
[/quote]
Tom rubbed the bridge of his nose. “By that point we were so close, and he’d just been through so much, and was so very happy, that I didn’t want—couldn’t, break his heart at the time. My plan was to give him some time, distance from his pain, and eventually explain things to him.”[quote=GameGraphix;5150]
Chapter 144
Mount Doom: Council Chamber
“Orcus’ uncle..” Phaestus nodded. “Only one of my sister’s kids I ever liked. Well, [h]Logoi [/h]is….” – shouldn’t this be Loki
[/quote]Nope different pantheon. Logoi is another child of Eris, whose name is interpreted as story, it’s also the plural of Logos, which means idea or concept.
[quote=GameGraphix;5150]
Krallnomton: Midday
No, what I can’t accept is that Tiernon and our Church has [h]old [/h]taught us…. – should this be always???[/quote]Fixed
[quote=Iume;5151]Is it Ptah, pTah, pêTah, or pi-Tah (yes, this exists in book2).All of these exist (pi-Tah is book 2.)[/quote]
It is, or should never really be Ptah.
pTah, pêTah, or pi-Tah should all vary by who is saying the the name. Different pronunciations. Some people simply cannot quite make the right sound with their mouth and are approximating, or have misheard etc.
Fixed the rest, thanks.
Yeah, I can see that. Tom is just sort of ignoring it as idle chatter from Phaestus.
However, if it were Loki, that would mean that Loki, adopted son of Odin, and a frost giant, was also the grandson of Zeus.
This sort of thing is only truly logical in New Zealand (with the Johnson family and their associates, they have people who are both Maori gods and Norwegian gods)
[quote=GameGraphix;5126]A few things that seemed a fit ‘off’ to me….
It seemed that Tom could easily open the gateway between the Isle of Doom and the Citadel….I was under the impression that the spell dome would have prevented this from happening…..
[/quote]The Interdiction only blocks off plane links, anything on the plane/world works—–crap—[size=4][color=red][b]FLAW[/b][/color][/size]
Nyseguard, Astlan, Etterdam, etc are in the same localverse. Given that the beacons/interdiction only blocks “off plane” access, Orcus should have been able to get to Astlan’s Doomalogue or Nysegard’s since the are all on the same material plane of existence, just different planets in different star systems.
That’s a problem, unless Interstellar distances are such that he needs to use wormholes through the Abyss to connect to those Doomalogues.
It’s not a problem for Tom, right now since there is only one Doomalogue, but it’s a flaw in the description of what happened to Orcus, I am going to need to go back to where the D’Orc Commanders, Tom etc talk about the vision and explain it there.
[quote=GameGraphix;5126]
The avatars where cut off from all of their followers except for the ones on Nysegard….why couldn’t they follow they ties to their other followers on Nysegard in the other locations and teleport there??? I originally thought (before the release of Beta 0) that the Citadel was the only location that the 5 Siblings people where – was a bit surprised to find out just before the battle that there where other locations around the world. This suddenly dropped the tension level – the threat of annihilation from the world…….if the Storm Lords had been planning this for years, wouldn’t they also be targeting the other locations at the same time????
[/quote]I mention earlier that there are other fortresses/sites for them. They haven’t been able to get together in one place since the death of the High Pontificate of Tiernon, Sessblame, to elect a new one. Note that Aeris is a Diocate, not an Arch-Diocate, the local Arch-Diocate is somewhere else. Same with some of the others, the highest church leaders of all the churches are spread out around the planet.
The citadel is just the largest fortress on the planet.
Yes, they could have teleported to any of their worshipers there and then done the relaying thing on their own. In a panic, they didn’t think of it until Tom suggested it. It’s rather stupid of them, but everyone does this sort of thing when encountering something new.
Orcus blew it as well, he could have told one of his D’Orcs to get the hell out of the battlefield and then use his link to that D’Orc to try and relay to Doom.
Since the links had not been used that way before, he never thought to do it at the time (we assume) but if he’d temporarily possed the D’Orc he could have made the connection between Doom and that D’Orc and re-energized himself and the D’Orcs.He (apparently) simply did not think of it.
At some point this will have to be explained, not sure where, they are in the heat of battle.
This is actually important, the avatars, even ones that have phoenix cycled like Beragamos, when presented with new and unusual situations can make mistakes, they are not infallible, they are no different than other people.
When followers realize this, they become disillusioned as per Phaestus/Volund’s discussions on Gods in Heavens, and as per Talarius’ crisis of faith.
[quote=GameGraphix;5126]
How did Tom manage to open a portal above the battle??? Up until now, he has only opened portals between planes and has always needed an ‘anchor’ of some type at the target location…..now he can open portals within the same plane without a ‘anchor'[/quote]The Trumpet of Doom is linked to Tom (remember when he gives it to Talarius), as long as he has a link, he can follow it. The only limit would be needing to follow a link through an abyssal wormhole to cross interstellar distances.
I can add that in to what Tom says to Talarius.
[quote=Burien;5129]One more thing i have alpha 3 ending right after the wedding party/Dis reveal. Beta0 has a few sections between this and the marked beginning of beta0 in the ToC. Minor i know but dont people to miss anything when just looking for the changed parts.[/quote]
Oops, missed that, thanks!
