Beta 0 Released
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FYI: Beta 0 is listed under Alpha 3 and Alpha 3 is listed under Beta 0. Also, a missing > in the HTML.
Also, so as not to delay Beta 1 and to keep of my comments in the same version I’ll not post anything until Beta 1 is released.
There is something that you might want to think about.
I could be wrong about this, but In this book, I get the feeling that you are avoiding the conflict. You describe action either before it happens, or more often than not, have characters reflect upon the excitement from afar after something happens. Very rarely do you simply get in there and start swinging swords or chucking fireballs.
Well….
Back to the runic gateway first…they would have needed somebody in the Citadel to build the other end of the gateway. Runic Gateways are not World Gates or star gates that you can just dial up. They have distinct end points, and they are unique and have to be built as a set, or at least you have to know the settings on the other side.
So you are saying you want more blood and guts in the battle? I can do that.
Are you saying that you want Orcus to show up later, after more sacrifice has been made? I can do that, however, it’s unlikely that a superfluous avatar would actually die because given that they have to fuel the priests, channel worship into a single point and then redistribute it, they would never see battle until almost everyone is wiped out.
The big thing is, being cut off from the Outer Planes means that the priests are basically powerless to do their job, Blessings, Protection Spells, repel the undead, etc. Therefore, any avatars available are going to work to answer the prayers of the priests and let them work as they were planning to do. Otherwise, things will get very ugly, fast. These guys are very old, they know that full well, and it’s also how they are trained to operate, more so than wading into combat.
Now, this all being said, the moat is an amazingly powerful barricade.
Vampires cannot cross running water, zombies, ghouls and ghasts (and vampires with still water) trying to swim the moat will dissolved. We are not sure what affect it would have on a lich.
Flying zombies/ghouls: dragons, pterosaurs, hippogriffs with ghast riders could cross the water. So that is definitely something I can do to up the battle before Orcus gets there.
I mean, I didn’t want an avatar to die simply because it could happen. I wanted an avatar to die so that Hilda and company, cut off from their god and afterlife must actually come to grips with their own mortality again. If You can only have Heroism if there are consequences, then for the brief moment befor Tom gets there, there is an actual chance for people, avatars included to act heroicly.
I do like that idea, however, not sure I can do exactly that at this point without killing of a major or semi-major character
The avatars we have are all either attending archons or prophets and then our core avatars: Beragamos, Stevos, Timbly and Hilda.
It would be very difficult to kill a prophet or attending archon, particularly in Daylight when the Storm Lords are at about 1/3 strength.
Beragamos would be nearly impossible to kill just a tad easier than Orcus.
And it’s doubtful any of those guys would get anywhere near someplace this could happen.
That leaves Stevos, Timbly and Hilda.
Hilda dying permanently would rather put a serious wrench in the timeline and future plot, plus probably piss a lot of other people off.
Stevos or Timbly could bite it, but I still think that would be a bit heavier and more distracting.
Also not sure if I can pull it off without seeming like a bit of heavy handiness…I mean I could go back and add a random avatar who just shows up a bit sooner but…
Now, what I can do, much more easily is have mortals die permanently, Hilda etal failing to do their jobs, to honor Tiernon’s commitment to them.
That is the part that is currently freaking out the avatars.
That’s why I suggested introducing a token saint or other archon at the start of the book, and have them make friends with the team then bite it at the end. Maybe one of the Biddies who used to make fun of Hilda shows up to apologize for making her life miserable and maybe even kiss ass a bit. She joins the team, does something heroic in battle and then dies without being able to be saved.
I just keep thinking you have your characters vulnerable for the first time, you should use it. You say, the bergermeister would only be slightly easier to kill than Orcus. Well in a similar situation Orcus died, there is real peril here, take advantage of it.
Good point.
Let me think on this.
I think my reticence comes from my reading history; last century Katherine Kurtz not only killed off major characters people had come to love, she had a freaking genealogy chart in the books from the very start of the first series with death years. After that, she went back in time to explore the lives of the ancestors and so you knew the year people died and when their books got to that year, you were living on pins and needles.
And it was compounded by the fact that the first to die only died publicly. He took over the identity of someone else who had really died instead (shape changed) so this left us with the hope that the character (particular the young King Javen) wouldn’t actually die, even though they did.
Now, I don’t really have a problem with writing a “surprise” ending where someone important dies….but it almost has to be a surprise to me too, otherwise I’m going to be writing with the same dread I had reading books like Katherine Kurtz.
At least with GRRM you know that everyone is going to die and it’s only a question of “at what random moment do they die a horrifying untimely and unpleasant death”
A few things that seemed a fit ‘off’ to me….
It seemed that Tom could easily open the gateway between the Isle of Doom and the Citadel….I was under the impression that the spell dome would have prevented this from happening…..
The avatars where cut off from all of their followers except for the ones on Nysegard….why couldn’t they follow they ties to their other followers on Nysegard in the other locations and teleport there??? I originally thought (before the release of Beta 0) that the Citadel was the only location that the 5 Siblings people where – was a bit surprised to find out just before the battle that there where other locations around the world. This suddenly dropped the tension level – the threat of annihilation from the world…….if the Storm Lords had been planning this for years, wouldn’t they also be targeting the other locations at the same time????
How did Tom manage to open a portal above the battle??? Up until now, he has only opened portals between planes and has always needed an ‘anchor’ of some type at the target location…..now he can open portals within the same plane without a ‘anchor’
How about one of Hilda’s group of warriors? I can see her getting attached to them quite quickly, and then feeling guilty and powerless when one dies because she didn’t have the mana to heal them fast enough.
One more thing i have alpha 3 ending right after the wedding party/Dis reveal. Beta0 has a few sections between this and the marked beginning of beta0 in the ToC. Minor i know but dont people to miss anything when just looking for the changed parts.
[quote=GameGraphix;5126]A few things that seemed a fit ‘off’ to me….
It seemed that Tom could easily open the gateway between the Isle of Doom and the Citadel….I was under the impression that the spell dome would have prevented this from happening…..
[/quote]The Interdiction only blocks off plane links, anything on the plane/world works—–crap—[size=4][color=red][b]FLAW[/b][/color][/size]
Nyseguard, Astlan, Etterdam, etc are in the same localverse. Given that the beacons/interdiction only blocks “off plane” access, Orcus should have been able to get to Astlan’s Doomalogue or Nysegard’s since the are all on the same material plane of existence, just different planets in different star systems.
That’s a problem, unless Interstellar distances are such that he needs to use wormholes through the Abyss to connect to those Doomalogues.
It’s not a problem for Tom, right now since there is only one Doomalogue, but it’s a flaw in the description of what happened to Orcus, I am going to need to go back to where the D’Orc Commanders, Tom etc talk about the vision and explain it there.
[quote=GameGraphix;5126]
The avatars where cut off from all of their followers except for the ones on Nysegard….why couldn’t they follow they ties to their other followers on Nysegard in the other locations and teleport there??? I originally thought (before the release of Beta 0) that the Citadel was the only location that the 5 Siblings people where – was a bit surprised to find out just before the battle that there where other locations around the world. This suddenly dropped the tension level – the threat of annihilation from the world…….if the Storm Lords had been planning this for years, wouldn’t they also be targeting the other locations at the same time????
[/quote]I mention earlier that there are other fortresses/sites for them. They haven’t been able to get together in one place since the death of the High Pontificate of Tiernon, Sessblame, to elect a new one. Note that Aeris is a Diocate, not an Arch-Diocate, the local Arch-Diocate is somewhere else. Same with some of the others, the highest church leaders of all the churches are spread out around the planet.
The citadel is just the largest fortress on the planet.
Yes, they could have teleported to any of their worshipers there and then done the relaying thing on their own. In a panic, they didn’t think of it until Tom suggested it. It’s rather stupid of them, but everyone does this sort of thing when encountering something new.
Orcus blew it as well, he could have told one of his D’Orcs to get the hell out of the battlefield and then use his link to that D’Orc to try and relay to Doom.
Since the links had not been used that way before, he never thought to do it at the time (we assume) but if he’d temporarily possed the D’Orc he could have made the connection between Doom and that D’Orc and re-energized himself and the D’Orcs.He (apparently) simply did not think of it.
At some point this will have to be explained, not sure where, they are in the heat of battle.
This is actually important, the avatars, even ones that have phoenix cycled like Beragamos, when presented with new and unusual situations can make mistakes, they are not infallible, they are no different than other people.
When followers realize this, they become disillusioned as per Phaestus/Volund’s discussions on Gods in Heavens, and as per Talarius’ crisis of faith.
[quote=GameGraphix;5126]
How did Tom manage to open a portal above the battle??? Up until now, he has only opened portals between planes and has always needed an ‘anchor’ of some type at the target location…..now he can open portals within the same plane without a ‘anchor'[/quote]The Trumpet of Doom is linked to Tom (remember when he gives it to Talarius), as long as he has a link, he can follow it. The only limit would be needing to follow a link through an abyssal wormhole to cross interstellar distances.
I can add that in to what Tom says to Talarius.
[quote=The Author Guy;5130]
The Trumpet of Doom is linked to Tom (remember when he gives it to Talarius), as long as he has a link, he can follow it. The only limit would be needing to follow a link through an abyssal wormhole to cross interstellar distances.
I can add that in to what Tom says to Talarius.[/quote]
I remember Tom giving Talarius the horn – but didn’t get the implication that it was the anchor – actually no real explanation of what it would do.
I’m a little bit surprised (and disappointed :^o ) that you didn’t use the sound track “Thunderstruck” by ACDC for your music in the battle – several other authors and TV shows tend to use that for their battle scenes…..[flapper]
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Gq0DdCkwU[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5TBRgtogtc[/YOUTUBE]
The author Joshua Dalzelle also uses it a scene in his book Omega Force: Return of the Archon
After all the holding back, and delaying, just having Tom open the gateway in the Citadel seems a little rushed. I feel like it just needs a small scene where Tom comes to a decision. The last thing he does before that scene is curl into a ball on his bed, then suddenly he is coming to the rescue.
Maybe while he is lying on the bed he could have another epiphany scene like the one in Grizzor Del where he accepts/embraces being a demon. Maybe this time he accepts if not embrace the possibility of being Orcus, and get up and tell his generals and Talarius to grab their gear.
[quote=Burien;5129]One more thing i have alpha 3 ending right after the wedding party/Dis reveal. Beta0 has a few sections between this and the marked beginning of beta0 in the ToC. Minor i know but dont people to miss anything when just looking for the changed parts.[/quote]
Oops, missed that, thanks!
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