Beta 0 Released
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[quote=Iume;5292]However, we now have this contrast.Talarius is less zealous and knows the truth, but [b][u]per Antefalken he can’t explain it to anyone (he tentatively tried w/ the Inferno crew, but no-good) so the people aboard the Inferno are still just as zealous as before.[/u][/b][/quote]
That’s an interesting contrast. I am going to think on that, because it really does change quite a few things around. I have to sleep on it, and ponder for a few days.
That’s really the problem with doing “betas” under duress, so to speak. I have numerous issues that cropped up because of fast changes in HH that I didn’t completely get ironed out before publishing. Whereas, ITA had a bit too much time to redo, over and over and over.
Need to figure out a happy mean. One option might be smaller books each year rather than longer books every 18 months to 2 years (we are doing 15 months this time)
This is why I need to be independently wealthy (doesn’t everyone) so i can do this round the calendar rather in 3 month sprints.
The big things it changes are readers’ inside knowledge of what is going on. That is what concerns me the most. Jokes and things one character says somewhere else make less sense if you don’t have the prior context. That is something I need to evaluate that is harder to determine.
[quote=GameGraphix;5296]Why not have them turn up while TOM is in the big battle at Nysegard…..then you can progress their story from the end of bk 3 into the beginning of book 4[/quote]
I think because if they show up during Nysegard, Arg-nargoloth won’t be so relaxed and might assume it’s part of a plot to take Tom down. During Nysegard, Doom is at full battlestations, paranoid of another crippling attack.
As it is now, he sort of slaps them with the back of his hand telling them to bug off. A warning shot.
However at red alert, he might hit them with a whole bunch of gravity canons to destroy them rather than take any risks.
[quote=LCSpartan051;5297]Nah, I don’t see this working. Talarius is too busy with Nysegard and stuff, so he’s not going to have time to immediately go hunting for Mellisance.[/quote]
I think in lume’s scenario, Talarius goes hunting for Melissance in Book 4, and all the Inferno scenes happen in book 4.
Now, the problem with that is we left people with a big build up for the Inferno in book 2, and to literally ignore it for all of book 3, which takes place over twice the length of time as book 2, is going to be awkward and lose momentum.
OK, we would do the first scenes, just not the later stuff.
But if I’m already having “gap” problems with the Nimbus (and it’s been on a big gap) this is another huge gap.
One thing I am trying to do in this book is not have so many inactivity gaps for any of the storylines.
I got hit hard, understandably so, for the lack of Tom in the first half of HH, I’m trying to avoid that again with any plotline; however the Nimbus is taking a hit this time.
The problem in the first half of HH was that I literally painted Tom into a cave with a bunch of slacker demons and a newbie holding a knight hostage and having no idea what to do with a hostage. There are no “snap” answers for that, which are believable, so I sort of had to take the hit.
Trying to avoid painting myself into such corners again.
[quote=The Author Guy;5299][quote=GameGraphix;5296]Why not have them turn up while TOM is in the big battle at Nysegard…..then you can progress their story from the end of bk 3 into the beginning of book 4[/quote]
I think because if they show up during Nysegard, Arg-nargoloth won’t be so relaxed and might assume it’s part of a plot to take Tom down. During Nysegard, Doom is at full battlestations, paranoid of another crippling attack.
As it is now, he sort of slaps them with the back of his hand telling them to bug off. A warning shot.
However at red alert, he might hit them with a whole bunch of gravity canons to destroy them rather than take any risks.
[/quote]
If you want to do it before the battle – how about at the same time that Tom is showing off his new clothes to Talarius
Just thinking about the Inferno and it’s run in with Mount Doom…. I can’t remember anyone actually telling Talarius that a flying submarine had turned up looking for him….when is he going to find out????
[quote=GameGraphix;5305]Just thinking about the Inferno and it’s run in with Mount Doom…. I can’t remember anyone actually telling Talarius that a flying submarine had turned up looking for him….when is he going to find out????[/quote]
You are correct, well that will be one less thing to fix if we move stuff around!
That’s part of the story in book 4 on his quest to find her. That’s a lot of fun to find out that Barabus has not only teamed up with Heron to locate him, but that they’ve also teamed up with Samael.
Trust me, Talarius penance/journey is not over!
Try digesting the fact that “the devil” is a rather pleasant chap and great conversationalist.
For Sir Lady Serah’s sake, I hope she doesn’t get too romantic with Sir Samwell. For a Knight Rampant of Tiernon literally getting in bed with the devil has to be an ex-communicable sin.
But If they do get romantic, the name of their son is well known: Damien–ooh wait—maybe they’ve already been romantic since we already have a Damien.
I do not believe he is in Etterdam. Not seeing it.
He was back for the D’Orcing and he’s in the conference room when they are discussing the Citadel.
But yes, he will be traveling with them at some point.
The Nimbus pacing is decent. A few dry spots, but overall they feel engaged. Moving the Inferno scenes to Book 4 will only make them feel that more engaged.
Additionally, what if we moved up the reopening of Nysegard and then the journey by Tal Gor? That allows the Nimbus to engage earlier in the story and saves more of the later book for the Nysegard battle?
I need to make a spreadsheet of each scene, list whose POV it shows, and the approximate length. Flipping through the TOC and the individually scenes to check is getting tedious.
Nimbus & co. are (** are the big scenes):
Chapter 117 **
Chapter 121
Chapter 122 **
Chapter 133
Chapter 138
Chapter 139 **
Chapter 140 **
Chapter 141 **
Chapter 142 (and here is where we stopped for now)Now, the big thing is that gap between 122 and 133. I personally tend to lump Nimbus and co. w/ the Wizard POV so if you mix it that it works better. They just need to interact and mirror Freehold from time to time.
The big things that still need to be handled in this book:
– Talarius’s final resolution
– Jenn
– Inferno (unless moved to Bk4)
– Tiernon’s choice
– Doomalogue journey (unless moved to Into the Wilds) need to actually reach the base of the volcanos. Maybe not restart, but at least reach and find occupants. Then in Tom needs to make a choice. Support his own people or support deals/oaths made with allied forces?[quote=The Author Guy;5307]I do not believe he is in Etterdam. Not seeing it.
He was back for the D’Orcing and he’s in the conference room when they are discussing the Citadel.
But yes, he will be traveling with them at some point.[/quote]
You are right, he was in the conference room to discuss the battle for the Citadel, however he was on Etterdam for the D’Orcing. [i]”Thus Karth, along with the D’Orc shaman Kroth-bitor, Karth’s wife Eldebra, two other orc shamans, Nod Rock Bender and Luga Strength Sapper and Arg-nargoloth had all gone to Ragala-nargoloth’s campsite. They had contacted her yesterday and she had taken her party slightly off course to a nearby henge, which being on a ley line intersection would be helpful in the ascension.”[/i]
I thought he was still on Etterdam because he didn’t show up in the battle for the Citadel.
[quote=The Author Guy;5310]
Unfortunately, the real Apostles of Doom story sort of got away from this book. Stuff that was supposed to happen here is getting postponed by Nysegard and the Storm Lords.As far as sliding things, at this point, if it helps us build a better climax to stay focused on the battle, I am willing to let concurrent stuff elsewhere (like Jenn, Inferno) slide into book 4 and back date those sections like I did at the beginning of those books.
Lots of options on the table.[/quote]
Prior to Book 2, what was the end goal for Book 3?
[quote=Ben;5311]I like the scenes as they are to be honest and think you should keep them in. I know it’s difficult with lots of characters but there’s nothing more annoying than when an author leaves a character out that someone likes.[/quote]
I know, it’s the other side of the Robert Jordan Coin. Plotlines/characters that distract you, on the one hand, plotlines characters that don’t get enough time on the other. And everyone had different tastes.
That is the advantage of single POV stories.
Yeah, Book 1 I read as if it were a single POV with only intermissions being the other POV. In Book 2 is became clear it was multiple POV.
[quote=Iume;5314]Prior to Book 2, what was the end goal for Book 3?[/quote]
It’s not so much prior goal as in shifting in time of priorities.
Given the name, which was done by a beta reader poll, I was planning on doing a lot more with the more obvious Apostles of Doom, meaning Tal Gor and the shamans and their quest, and very specifically Fer Rog and Rupert.
However, writing a book is like an RPG, you setup the rules and the situation and the character go where they will. You can try to push them, but they are stubborn.
Now that it what it feels like, but a lot of it is “what engages me the most” and/or where is my Muse striking.
In particular for me, Talarius story really came forward faster than I expected, all natural given what happened to him, so it felt more organic to continue with his story, I saw more immediate drama there. The others were just not so close to an inflection point in their story.
And so the story became much more his story.
The Nysegard Storm Lords stuff was there because they got move forward in HH Beta, and they just fit very well with the Talarius story. Actually it was the SL story that really pushed the Talarius buttons.
However, the title still works, it’s just not what people expect based on the title/lead up and cover. It’s about Talarius becoming at least temporarily an Apostle of Doom, leading the army of Doom into battle against the Storm Lords.
Now, whether or not this is a one time thing, that’s Talarius choice that you bring up.
I don’t know that it gets answered here, but what is true and conclusive for him in this book is that his old life/way of thinking is over. Old Talarius is dead.
Who is the new Talarius? What does he stand for? I think that continues in the coming books. Even as Tom must do the same.
[quote=Iume;5316]Yeah, Book 1 I read as if it were a single POV with only intermissions being the other POV.In Book 2 is became clear it was multiple POV.[/quote]
When I really first started it, it was POV, but then I realized that I needed Jenn to tell the other side of the story, and of course Lenamare and Jehenna were just so much fun and I wanted to get their point of view.
And at this point, we are still up through the Rex scenes, I realized that what I wanted to show was that people are people and issues are more a matter of perspective and life history. That most common conflicts arrive out of fear of the other, and a misunderstanding of cultures and that no one (or very few) see themselves a evil.
So we had to see that none of these people considered themselves evil, so I was pulling back the curtain, and it just kept sort of escalating.
You can see that the POV’s start seriously spreading by the journey to Freehold and by Verigas the splintering escalated
I don’t think it would have been as shocking/abrupt if Tom hadn’t been stuck in that very boring cave for 5 days. It was only 5 days, but 5 very busy days for everyone else. And so that was a huge shock to people and took some getting used to.
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