Demon power ups
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- This topic has 162 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 3 years ago by Tizzy.
2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1784
In the manga ‘Death Note,’ the user of the notebook also has to know the face of the victim for the notebook to work. That is the extra stuff that is needed. How about with the true name? What is the extra stuff.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1785
Not clear to me. One presumes that one would need distinguishing parameters of some sort or you could end up with the wrong person.
However, if the demon is initially bound by a name and one does demon summoning rituals (even if the demon isn’t summoned to you) the true name used in the initial binding works as expected with no additional parameters being needed.
Now, what happens when you attempt to bind a new demon for the first time and their name is already taken?
you can’t have 2 demons in the abyss with the same true name. That we know. Does the binding/incarnation then fail? Or do other parameters get bound into the name.
If I were to guess, for lesser wizards it would fail, for greater wizards with really powerful spells, they can probably work something out that alters the name enough to force the binding. Remember, spelling is also important and this presumably has some leeway given different alphabets/runes etc.
Not clear to me at all. Speculating here.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1787
True Names has actully pop up in many fantasy books but is not fleshed out. The nature of true name here is just almost illogical. For one thing, our names are actually limited. There are actually many people who share the same name throughout the times. But there have to be infinite number of True Names. If you only have a small set of alphabets (or syllabaries or pictograms) then you would easily run out of practical combinations (a hundred syllable name anyone?). There has to be some sort of loop hole.
And of course I had talked to Tizzy about those ‘unpronouncable names’ and the rather large available phonemes that isn’t all used by any given language. I had often laughed at foreigners when they spoke other language wrong. They just very funny.
Hah! Better not really talk much about this true name thing. We would not be able to get anywhere.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1788
yes, I think it very important that people stop thinking about true names.
and in particular, transcribing true names to text/paper in a writing system.
There are clearly lots of problems with this that are too difficult and vexing to think about.
so do not think about this anymore. let’s forget true names ever existed or that anyone would ever write them down in some language that might be misinterpretable.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1789MaouMember
Demons exist on a continuous spectrum of power, so what happens as they grow. Do they undergo a metamorphosis when they reach a certain level of power or is their power bound to their initial shell. I really wish to know the mechanisms which will normally promote or inhibit demonic growth and to what extent they will affect it.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1790
Actualy, demons doesn’t seem to grow. The book seem to say so. The ability of their demon bodies is fixed.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1791
A given body is pretty much fixed, although one could in theory alternate given enough time and effort.
It’ really a question of the demon and their power/strength/ability.
Demons can grow in power over long periods of time, just like Astlanians. Most simply don’t, or not in ways that are measurable, at least not on mortal timescales.
And I should be clear, unless they are really stupid, and some are, demons do “grow in experience’ however some of that doesn’t directly translate in a significant rise in “power” as defined by the colors. i.e. measurable mana or animus levels.
For example, a type II demon might eventually become a much better servant, much more able to anticipate the needs of a master and avoid pain and suffering, and better please new masters sooner, etc. Does this change their power level? Not by a huge amount, except over very very long time periods.
Assume a Type II demon doing this for a thousand years, and then a brand new II. Technically in terms of sheer “power” (whatever that is in the mirror) they are both Fiends, but the thousand year old fiend is going to be much more experienced and this would translate into real world advantages in doing their duties serving their master. But would it make them better in combat? Perhaps/probably, but only due to experience and having been in more fights, and if the thousand year old demon had never fought before? Then no it probably wouldn’t help.
This comes back to what does “more powerful” mean.
There is sheer, measurable power: mana/animus and then there are less measurable quantities of experience, skill, willpower, determination, motivation etc.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1792
Tizzy, that makes sense. That is what I got from the book too. Though it is pretty bad for the level 1 demons.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1793
It sucks to be them. In particular: shadows, for example, just kind of hang out in the dark observing things, they really can’t touch much of anything.
Although, I don’t recommend getting to cozy with them, they often gang up and they can trap people “in the shadows” and steal the person’s life force.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1797
I think the main reason is that the form/identity has to be something the shifter is comfortable with.
The first demon form is forced on the demon, between his/her imagination and the summoner’s imagination/picture/idea
Later ones, at least if they are going to be stable are ones that the shifter can concentrate on, and know the details of very well. And keep the form solid/unchanging.
I suspect if one were a taxidermist or veterinarian you could be a pretty good shapeshifter.
Most secondary forms are humanoid because they are closest to what the shifter knows best. I.e. a human with hooves, or claws or tentacles is a relatively minor thing, or just a completely wacky unreal monster that the user completely makes up.
Getting/knowing all the details of a wolf, and getting it right and realistic is much more tough.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1799
I’ve never met one that could.
I’m not aware of any demons less than IV that can reliably shape change. And not all IV’s can. I gotta tell you there are some seriously ugly ass giant demon monster guys out there that would probably love to be able to change form–but they can’t.
A few 3’s can temporarily do it, in the Abyss, but they generally can’t hold it for long (as per Boggy’s and my’s discussion with Tom early on).
Now that being said, if a demon can do magic, and there are a few threes that can, they could cast an illusion.
In fact, this is standard operating procedure for the Succubae and Incubae, most of them are around level 3. They most certainly can appear to be someone/something else, subject to the victim’s desires. Now this is not so much spell casting as innate ability and is related to their ability to charm/mesmerize and cause lust in their victims/targets.
Someone who is immune to the *bus’ charms would see them as they are, but the victims tend to see them as someone/thing highly desirable, at least if the Sucubbus/Incubus wants them to/is trying.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1800AnskierMember
Speaking of demon powers.
When Tom was first summoned they commented about how it was confusing as to why he didn’t use any level IV tricks, what kinds of things were they talking about?
Also when Tom confronted the lone soldier on his way back from delivering the message to the other wizard, the soldier attacked him with a whip and it went through him but when he tried with a sword it didn’t – Why?2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1801
I am not convinced J&L even knew what they meant,they’d have been going off tales told by others, I personally doubt either had actually summoned an unbound 4 before.
However, there are plenty of legends about what the high powered demons can do in those circumstances out there on the Astral plane.
For example: prying into the minds of the recipients via empathy/telepathy (not clear what) and extracting the conjuror’s deepest fears and then creating illusions, or realities that attack the conjuror with their deepest feats.
Mind games, illusions, all sorts of trickeries and deceptions, Perhaps turning to mist and seeping through the holes in the magic net
When there is a group, do fear attacks on the weakest link, try to break the circle of power. If it knows spells it could cast counter or neutralized spells.
Now as to the whip..
First demons and other exptraplanars (in their true form) can only be hurt by magic items or iron based items (and in some cases silver or other metals)
The whip was leather, dead flesh and Tom didn’t even notice it, if he’d noticed it, it would have hit him but not hurt…think of it being similar to his flame form which is insubstantial.
Live flesh with animus in, would have touched him whether he knew it or not.
The sword was iron, or perhaps steel, which contains iron. So therefore he felt it, but it wasn’t sharp enough to hurt him.
Talarius, later on, had a sword with iron in it and it was super blessed/magical.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1802
Wow. Wizards are paranoid. Even if they said they are ‘scientific’ they are still very much suceptible to heresay. So much for science.
Have wondered about the whip too but was looking forward for it in book 2. Well, it isn’t that big anyway. Not a very big spoiler.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1804
Not that. The spoiler is the explanation, the mechanics of how things works. With the advance knowledge that we have, the sense of discovery and exploration is reduced. This sense of wonder and discovery is a typical fare in Fantasy. This is the very charm in Alice in Wonderland. We meet all those wacky characters and Wonderland’s curious logic for a great read.
I was kinda waiting for book two to explore the nature of demon bodies, their anantomy so to speak.
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