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All of these points you raise are good, and for the most part, that’s why people are scared witless of greater demons, archdemons and princes.
They can do all sorts of nasty things. Such as dominate the wizard and force him to become a warlock slave. They also have access to incubuses.
The type I through III’s and the lesser IV’s can’t really do this. They don’t have the power, or the resources (e.g. hire an incubus)
The animages that summon things are called Summoners. Summoners and some types of druids/shaman work in a similar manner to what you describe; very much like Tom does. The way Tom listens for Gastrope’ or others to ‘summon him’ call him by name and then he opens a link through a nearby fire is pretty much the exact reverse of what a Summoner would do.
A summoner controlling a demon would have a binding on that demon, that would provide him the link to the demon, so the demon could hear him (much like Tom has) and he could use that binding (a very high level link) to compel the demon, but he, the Summoner would have to open the gateway for the demon (assuming it’s a lesser demon)
The real problem Summoners have is that it’s very freaking dangerous, you don’t have all the protections or armor that a wizard has. The wizard will build up all these spells, ritual etc to protect himself from the demon.
Summoner’s don’t really have this, it is shear will power. So Summoners that summon demons typically stick to Type I, II. Something they have the power to defeat in combat. In particular something called a Will War or various things (wizards have Wizard War) which are basically sheer tests of magical strength/magical wrestling if you will.
That being said, summoners can and do use Rune Magic, if they know it. Rune Magic predates modern wizardry and is probably the oldest from of formulated magic. You see Tom learning how to use it/read it/activate it in book II.
So serious Summoners would use rune magic to construct wards of protection, much like a wizard does with the pentagrams. A summoner can in fact make a pentagram inscribed with runes. If they are smart, they will.
Of course Summoners can summon about anything. They often use Summoning to summon animals, or spirits, or the dead. Remember there was some talk about this when Edwyrd was handwaving to Maelon about how to bring back Rupert.
Shaman’s do a lot of Summoning; although typically not of demons.
So back to your other point about making demons. Most humans would never even think of this because demons are elemental evil in their mind. They can distinguish humans from nearby worlds on the Astral Planes, but as the distance between planes increase the distortion grows.
Orcus was essentially creating demons out of his greatest Orc warriors upon their death. There were great ceremonies where the great warriors were linked to orcus and tattooed with various magical runes and then if and when they died, Orcus and his D’Orc Shamans would summon the warrior using the tattoo’s and links to capture the soul of the warrior and drag it into the Abyss and create a D’Orc body.
Well, presumably it should work about the same for most any mortal creature; with a few tweaks and such. Orcs, dwarves, humans, heartheans, etc are all put together pretty similarly. Elves are stuck together differently (see library), so that would probably be much trickier.
He would have to learn to do that. I presume that since he plans to rebuild the Doompire he will want to be making more D’Orcs. No reason he couldn’t do that for others that wanted it. The only problem I see is how long it takes to figure this out. Humans don’t live that long, even assuming that a giant war wasn’t about to sneak up and clobber everyone. So he’s probably only got four or five decades to figure it out for Vaselle.
Of course this is just the assumption I am working on. We shall have to see how serious he is about the “Restoration” as the D’Orcs and Orcs are calling it. I have a suspicion not all parties agree on what a Restoration of the Doompire actually means.
I have never lied in my life! Dear Sir! [-x
Hmm, that might be a lie?
I am a demon, demon’s always lie, so therefore I must be lying about never lying…
Of course, since I am a demon and demon’s always lie, I must therefore be lying about demon’s always lying! #-o
In which case I am telling the truth!
In either event, I am simply little old me. Tizzy, most innocuous of demons in the Abyss. Ask anyone!
Her curmudgeonly attitude would be a great fit.
However, not sure she would have much patience for their war like attitudes…and I am sure she would think they looked evil…she’s very racist in that regard. She seems to prejudge everyone from the Abyss as being evil for some bizarre reason.
So they would probably like her, not sure about her liking them.
Hmm, D’orcgres would be really sweet. I’ll have to look into that…not that I can do anything about it…
You see, that’s the complication. Most demons are really nice people (other than Lillith) and while most deities are evil, not all of them are.
I suspect it’s not going to be a very straightforward battle of FOG vs FOE….
In extra dimensional politics, there are lots of side shifting games going on.
The main rule, at least in the Abyss is: “just don’t eat your current allies” you can betray them, backstab them, etc. Just do NOT [i]eat[/i] them.
I’ve found that if you eat your ally, or, for that matter, your opponent, it tends to just end the argument right there.
Of course, that is Lillith’s preferred way of ending most arguments she gets in…but I find that over time it gets less effective as others tend to start avoiding you. And they definitely avoid your dinner parties.
Well, wound…she’s already dead.
Of course, if she comes into the Abyss….that would be dangerous for. But otherwise on the planes of men/orcs, if she’s killed she’ll just pop back to Tierhallen. It would be very difficult to kill her there, what with all the avatars, archons and Tiernon himself.
In the Abyss…well then, we have homefield advantage and you know the saying. “What happens in the Abyss, stays in the Abyss.”
We’ve had that saying trademarked for several thousand years. It’s one of the best reasons to visit us. Although I am hearing disturbing rumors that some ‘Courts of Chaos’ wanna be city in the middle of a desert on some podunk low-mana world out near the fringes of reality has been violating our trademakr.
Lot of ground, interesting….
What Tom does along the way of shaman/priests/links/mana etc is all tied up in the story to come; as a hint, the whole Doom thing is also tied in.
I do point out that apostles are used to spread the word of a deity and establish a church, or at least what these apostles named Peter and Paul did.
Hmm, I wonder if they ever sang with Mary Magdalene? They could call themselves “Peter, Paul and Mary” and sing about magic dragons…
Unfortunately, as you will see, things are going to get a bit more complicated yet, on that front in book III.
I can’t say much because I’m sworn to eternal secrecy.
Reasonably certain that “True Name” is not on Lenamare’s enrollment application.
However, pretty sure necromancers do ask for that at some point; same with other dark magi and such. You know, sort of sign yourself into slavery to the master wizard in order to learn his/her secrets.
Key point being, as a dark wizard lord, you want to have solid reigns on your minions lest they try to rebel, overthrow you and use the dark magic you taught them to screw you over.
Well, presumably they could start out as an Imp or Shadow and spend thousands of years “leveling up”
Of course, that has not been working out for me. But then for some reason, I don’t have a lot of initiative. If I were to be honest, I think I just enjoy chillin with my pipe a bit too much.
If you can have a Greater Shadow maybe a Shadow Prince?
Very cool title at the least. Ooh, maybe the shadows are ruled by The Prince of Shadows?
Probably not.
Shadows are the same power level/range as imps. But they are bodiless dark regions. (which is odd because in the Abyss, there is no Fierd and thus no shadows? Except in the Court and in caves of course.) On the Planes of Men, shadows can move freely at night, but there is no night in the Abyss. That would sort of suck. You’d need to get to a cave and you’d be stuck there. Although that Morthador fellow seems to show up at Exador’s tower in broad daylight somehow.
Really should start paying more attention to those things.
I would assume if something is a Greater Shadow, it would have roughly the same strength as a Greater Demon (again there are lots of variations among all demon levels) but if presumably an ‘average’ shadow would be able to deadlock or have a 50/50 chance of beating an ‘average’ greater demon.
So presumably a Shadow Prince would be somewhere on the same range as the other princes.
But again, once you get up into that stratosphere, it’s not all about “power” it’s also about “clever/intelligent/resourceful” use of power.
The ability to out maneuver your opponent.I have not seen Jenn’s diary online, or offline. She doesn’t have interdimensional access so not sure how she would have posted it. Plus being private not sure she would want to post it.
However, maybe what you read was about an alternate version of the first summoning written from Jenn’s perspective. T-A-G was going to put that online, not sure if he did. It would be in the Library, either in the wizardry section near Conjurors, or maybe, but doubtful demon section.
Taking a quick look, not seeing it there, he may not have posted it…I’ll bug him.
#-o
Knew I forgot something.
However, as Argh-nargoloth mentioned, it’s very hard to open!
I like my thoughts private, which is why I am so close-mouthed and non-communicative.
A lot of people have trouble telling what I’m thinking because I am so tight lipped! At least that’s what I’ve self-diagnosed as the reason for my difficulties in communicating with people.
