The reactions of Ramses, Bess, and Exador

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  • #2268

    I find it rather bemusing that anyone would even bring up the word “failure” in a forum topic I have graced with my commentary.

    I have no patience for failure, failure is not an option to be discussed.

    Now to correct the record:

    [quote]Success leads to genius and failure leads to insanity.[/quote]

    Correctly stated:

    [u][b]Genius[/b][/u] leads to Success; Failure leads to [i][b]Obscurity and Irrelevance.[/b][/i]

    History is a very harsh mistress and it is determined by the successful.

    I suppose, should I wax philosophical, I might point out that the only thing good about that word, “failure” is that, eventually people who fail are forgotten by history and so no one remembers that one failed. In fact, they simply forget that the person who failed ever existed.

    If that is not Existential Justice, then I don’t know what is.

    #2270
    Madfox11
    Member

    I am a bit late to the discussion, but wouldn’t most mortal observers of said duel actually conclude that the god is angry with his follower for that final bit of cheating and using Tom to express said feeling? I don’t know how things work in Astlan, but I have read about a couple of other worlds and in those planes paladins of uptight deities should not make promises they had no intent on keeping even when made to Evil. Furthermore, I suspect it is also a lot more comforting to mortals to belief the god used a demon to do this than that a demon can actually steal the power of your god. Hack, even said deity might prefer people to belief so since it keeps the image of infallibility intact.

    #2271
    Tizzy
    Member

    Your position is basically Tom’s position.

    Tom told me that was his feeling. Talarius cheated. Good guys aren’t supposed to cheat.

    Now, that being said: Astlanian gods are far from omniscient, so unless Tiernon or one of his reps was watching, they won’t know about the cheating…yet.

    Of course, the mortals don’t know this, and so many may conclude what you did, but experience with these folks means tells me they probably won’t reach the same conclusion. Demons are just evil to them, no matter what.

    And Talarius and the Rod? Well, remember there are competing pantheons, so while clearly people who worship Etonian Gods (Tiernon and the others) think of them as good; those who worship gods of other pantheons don’t particularly see Talarius and the Rod as “good guys” that have to wear a white hat.

    What is interesting is that Exador (I think in Book 1, if not then in Book 2) does notes that Talarius was pushing the bounds of what was considered good when he was Vicar General of the Rod and concludes that he (Exador) must have had an influence on the religion.

    #2272
    Jonnyboi
    Member

    [quote=Tizzy;1019]Your position is basically Tom’s position.

    Tom told me that was his feeling. Talarius cheated. Good guys aren’t supposed to cheat.

    Now, that being said: Astlanian gods are far from omniscient, so unless Tiernon or one of his reps was watching, they won’t know about the cheating…yet.

    Of course, the mortals don’t know this, and so many may conclude what you did, but experience with these folks means tells me they probably won’t reach the same conclusion. Demons are just evil to them, no matter what.

    And Talarius and the Rod? Well, remember there are competing pantheons, so while clearly people who worship Etonian Gods (Tiernon and the others) think of them as good; those who worship gods of other pantheons don’t particularly see Talarius and the Rod as “good guys” that have to wear a white hat.

    What is interesting is that Exador (I think in Book 1, if not then in Book 2) does notes that Talarius was pushing the bounds of what was considered good when he was Vicar General of the Rod and concludes that he (Exador) must have had an influence on the religion.

    [/quote]

    So are you saying that Talarius wasn’t suppose to cheat? Does Tiernon actually even care? I mean Tom was a demon and i’m thinking the good acts of love don’t apply to them in Tiernon’s book.

    #2273
    Tizzy
    Member

    I am sure Talarius thought Tom would cheat, he’s a demon after all.

    However, Tom, foolishly if you ask me, thought for some odd reason that Holy Knights in Shining Army were the “good guys” or were supposed to be.

    I’m thinking he paid too much attention to the history of Greyhawk and too little attention to the Crusades of Earth’s Middle Ages. Of course, if he’d ever been to Westeros, he’d have also known better.

    Of course, I have a soft spot for Westeros, you’ve never been to a wedding until you’ve been to one in the Riverlands of Westeros. Those are my kind of wedding! Much more fun than the normal stuffy kind. My buddy, Walder, he knows how to put on a shindig! He also knows something about cheating and betrayal…

    #2274
    Madfox11
    Member

    [quote=Jonnyboi;1020]So are you saying that Talarius wasn’t suppose to cheat? Does Tiernon actually even care? I mean Tom was a demon and i’m thinking the good acts of love don’t apply to them in Tiernon’s book. [/quote]

    From what I read in between the lines, Tiernon would not care. Exador pointed out Talarius was the most infused champion he had seen and some of Talarius’ acts and mindset don’t mash very well with those Greyhawk paladins Tizzy mentioned (unless they serve St. Cuthbert that is).

    I am merely arguing on what mortal observers would likely conclude based on my limited experience with mortals on this planet called Earth. It is just that most humans on this world tend to stick to their illusions of comfort, at times suicidal so. Demons stealing power from your deity seems to make your god look rather weak, while gods using demons to punish their followers seems to be all in line with many religions. Then again, Astlan deities are not infallable and omnipotent, and as such a demon doing something wicked, like stealing the power of your deity, is probably a lot more comfortable than having your fundamental believes on what is good and right be shaked at its foundations* 😉

    * Even if the god apparently only got angry when you surrender and stab somebody in the back which might be seen as the deity being angry at the fact that you surrendered to Evil in the first place…. Mmmm… religion is complicated 😉

    #2275
    Tizzy
    Member

    Yeah,

    that makes sense, but a lot of this still have to be processed (book II) the initial reaction is shock, I think.

    But yes, lots of different people have different reactions, and that’s what book II is about, at least the first half or so, then the rest is the repercussions of those reactions.

    The mana stealing is big, it’s not supposed to be possible. Also one key point is that for most observers that weren’t participants it’s probably not completely clear what happened. Unless you were watching with wizard/demon/elvish whatever sight, etc.

    However, I can say, as a demon, rather than thinking Tiernon looked weak, most are going to be worried about retaliation from Tiernon and friends. At least that’s what I’m worried about.

    #2276
    smw
    Member

    [quote=Tizzy;1029]Yeah,

    However, I can say, as a demon, rather than thinking Tiernon looked weak, most are going to be worried about retaliation from Tiernon and friends. At least that’s what I’m worried about.

    [/quote]

    Friends… like The Heavenly Host? That would make an awesome title for a book…

    #2277
    Tizzy
    Member

    #-o

    It would indeed! I’m going to have to tell T-A-G to think about using that!

    #2278
    Rosver
    Member

    A retaliation from the gods can’t be good. Remember the mythologies? The gods rather gives overly harsh acts for petty insults.

    #2279
    Flakes
    Member

    Retaliation from a God?

    “But I’m an enslaved demon. My accused master ordered me to drain your holy Grace/mana to fuel his feindish spells. If you want to retaliate against someone, he is ultimatly responsible.”

    #2280
    Madfox11
    Member

    [quote=Flakes;1038]Retaliation from a God?

    “But I’m an enslaved demon. My accused master ordered me to drain your holy Grace/mana to fuel his feindish spells. If you want to retaliate against someone, he is ultimatly responsible.”[/quote]

    As if gods ever bother to ask questions first… not to mention their track record in regards to only punishing the guilty are not too good either. Mind you, if you can say it quick and convincingly enough, you at least get the satisfaction of getting your accursed master hurt as well. Mind you, you might end up with the Rod on a crusade against the whole Wizard Council, which is probably fine by most demons, but Tom seems to care a bit about keeping innocents alive 😉

    #2282
    Rosver
    Member

    Astlan gods seems to be different from Greek/Roman gods but still their wrath is horrible to experience. The Christian God for example has moments of extreme ruthlessness. Greek/Roman gods more so. Just even being a focus of their interest portends bad things. I even think that people gives offerings to these gods so that they wont attract attention.

    #2283
    Tizzy
    Member

    That would be prudent….sort of like a bribe to “look the other way.”

    If you start sacrificing too few lambs, goats, bulls, whatever, they might want to come investigate…

    If that gets their attention, I wonder what taking something the god already had would do?

    #2284
    Rosver
    Member

    Well, Tom is a thief, but I think he wont be getting into a prison. I think, when he comes back to the surface, the gods would rain lightning endlessly at him, hit him with a meteor, detonate a nuclear bomb, and burry him in a mountain of stinking socks.

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