ETA: Next book
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Interesting point.
Coming back to Poseidon as well.
Googling images, most are modern representations of the “devil with a pitchfork” but most of the time they are 3 prong and do look more like tridents. Probably were tridents originally.
I am sure over time there was confusion and misinterpretation.
I would note that in Christianity at least, Jesus is a Fisher of Men. Clearly, a fisherman might use a trident to spear fish, or in this case people/souls.
Thus his adversary a.k.a. “Satan” [i](which is a title or description. NOT A NAME–it literally means ‘adversary’ so when thousands of people in the middle east call the US, the Great Satan, they mean the Great Adversary–they aren’t necessarily saying the US is the devil…although of course, some may mean that given they know what people in the US think it means)[/i] would like use a trident to “fish men’s souls” be they could be saved.
[quote=Jonnyboi;1845]
What can I say Tizzy, guess that nowadays teenage girls are turned on by dangerous decaying and dead people.
I mean not everyone can say they have sex with dead people.[/quote]Read a manga with the MC being an incestuous necrophiliac. His sister was a ghoul which he revived, pretty similar to Twilight, but Japanese version. They both sucked as all hell( even though I read the last book of Twilight a few times, I regret it). To see how much they suck you have to see it for yourself, words cannot warn you about the incoming horror( while he did not have sex with his sister, it was pretty close). And there goes a few hours of my life, better spent lazing around rather than reading books like those, your book is so much better IMO. ETA for beta demonism? I haven`t really been active on the forums in the last week or two, so I can`t really say I saw any announcement(s) regarding it o:)
To be totally fair to the Tom lovers.
I remember in the Wheel of Time books as they started to expand…I was like, “Where’s the Rand” who cares about most of these others!
I mean, I did like them, but I was so impatient to get back to the Rand story, about 1/3 of the other POV’s drug out way too much. It got worse as the series went on.
There will be more Tom in Book 3, but the others will still be there.
We are now getting somewhere. You are making a path in the forst.
I actually got more usable information from you this time then in some of the beta. Your advice here on Jenn and Gastrope’ was good. I needed more stuff like that. You say cut, I say it’s important and I can’t cut it, (and I did cut stuff, like the guys on the boat, the roller coaster) so you then say, OK, we can improve it by have them discussing the guys in the grove, etc. That’s what I mean.
You are correct on Hilda, I conflated your criticism with some others and the general “lack of Tom” in the first half. To be honest I have trouble remembering what is in current reviews and what was in beta discussion. At some points it becomes a blur.
Dirk is basing this on on the current discussion/and or other public discussions, he was not in the beta program and does not have access to the beta forum.
Of course, you should be careful not to look for too much meaning behind names either. My RL name has a meaning, but I am named after my grandfather not because of whatever it used to mean in Latin 😉 Sometimes the author simply likes the sound of the name and is not paying all that much attention to the meaning.
Editor is saying I should have book by end of this week (today/tomorrow/Sunday).
Thus, assuming the Beta Demons vote on a title for Book 3, I am going to try to have at least the Kindle version out by October 1, 2015. If possible the Dead Tree at the same time.
@Rosver
Yes, I know your opinion, I have read all the reviews and opinion, and no one is calling anyone anything, including JMX etc. Different people have different perspectives. Reading and stories are subjective experiences. They are far more personal than TV or Movies because you have to use your own imagination to bring the words to life. What works for some people doesn’t always work for others. Reading is a joint experience between author and reader.
I can’t possibly write a book or books that pleases everyone. I just have to try to please myself and as many others as I can.
Given your complaints listed in this thread, I would say, as I said during the beta, you are not able to see the forest due to all the stupid trees in the way.
Not everything has to make sense immediately. In life, some things, the actions of some people around you and towards you won’t make sense to you for many years, and maybe never. The same thing is true in a complex book in what we call “epic fantasy.”
Just because “you” can’t see or understand something immediately doesn’t mean it’s stupid or useless or has no point. Maybe the problem isn’t the character or the substory line, maybe the problem is that you haven’t read the entire book (and again Demons of Astlan is one book in multiple volumes) and so you do not yet know how these things are going to play out.
I said this many times in beta. It’s a long book and I can’t cram everything into a single volume. These books are NOT sequels, they are one very long book. There is a beginning that happened at the start of book 1, but there will be NO ending, NO closure until the last page of the final book (and even then…there could be new beginnings after that) [i][b]But the end of each book is just an arbitrary break point. A resting point to take a breath during a very long journey. [/b][/i]
I really don’t know how much I can stress this.
If you have to have closure in a single book, then I suggest you wait until you see: “Demons of Astlan: The Final Volume” and then read them all at once. I will also do an omnibus volume (or two) at some point. I think the total story will be about 2 million words. We are around 500,000 in right now. So we are 1/4 of the way done, probably.
But I warn you, even then, I may not wrap up every loose end to your satisfaction.
Life does not have tidy endings, nor should stories. Part of the joy of life is not knowing where things are going, following leads/ideas/adventures for their own sake, and not for the sake of some future goal.
Your main complaint in beta was:
“I hate Jenn and Gastrope’s story; remove it; remove the Grove and the Nimbus or cut them down to almost nothing.” You also weren’t that happy with too much Hilda.
I did cut out the roller coaster. But cutting out the Grove and Gastrope’ and Jenn storylines sabotages stuff that comes later. I have to set things up for future events; otherwise there is no backstory or I have to spring it on people. That’s the [b]forest[/b]; you wanted me to start cutting down half the trees in it.
The POV’s were mentioned, but all about they are distracting us from Tom; not that they were confusing and certainly I saw no major complaints on the rehashing that said that exactly.
Here is the thing, Tom was stuck in a cave for several days while Talarius recovered and he figured out what to do. Now in book 1, he also spent a lot of time in the cave, and we sort of skipped over it in time and just said that he made furniture. We could do this because nothing else was happening. So time could jump a couple days for everyone.
This time, when he was stuck in the cave for several days, a LOT of other stuff was happening, a lot of stuff that was setting up future books and reactions from observers; the reaction scenes were things that lots of people had requested in various forums here and on Amazon and Goodreads had asked for; so I wanted to deliver. So while he is doing nothing, I covered the important stuff other people were doing.
What was I supposed to do during that time period? Have pages and pages of the guys in the cave navel gazing and having odd conversations with Tizzy and arguments with sleeping Talarius? I could have covered more Reggie, but that too would have been distracting to you.
You mentioned something in the review about the sex bothering you?
This is why I want you to try writing a book, a book who’s story you believe in and that you want to tell. I have constraints; the constraints of the story itself. You want me to toss them out because you don’t understand them. I can’t do this and still have “the story”
Now everyone wanted more action, more battles; I gave you all that. But you still weren’t happy.
Honestly, I had and have no idea what you wanted. You just told me what you didn’t want, which was like half the book. You don’t ever tell me what’s good; only what’s bad. So I have no idea what it is you actually want; just what you didn’t want. You are the reviewer of “No” but you can’t articulate why you say “no” you just say “no”
“I hate Hilda; I hate the Grove; it’s boring; it’s not going anywhere, it doesn’t add to the plot.” [b][i](FOREST ALERT–this is what you call the straw man)[/i][/b] I kept telling you yes it does add to the plot/story; you just can’t see it yet. But you said “cut it out anyway” and when I said I couldn’t; you didn’t work to make it better/more interesting you just went away.
So whatever, the books will march on and I will get feedback, input and even direction from those that want to provide it. But Rosver, it’s my story and I have to tell it. I will be guided by others, but I can’t please everyone. It just isn’t possible. If you don’t like it and don’t want to add constructive criticism that improves the book but only hack it to pieces, that’s your right. I’ll take it under advisement; but I’d really prefer you to be helpful and constructive and not so negative, defensive and curmudgeonly.
You have great insight and a keen mind, I just wish you’d use it to build rather than tear down.
What was the problem with Hilda. She was the best part of book 2. She was book 2’s Tom. The reason I kept reading. I’m happy with the way things turned out. All too often in self published books you get some uber main character who is over powered, who just breezes through the plot with deus ex machina saves and shallow secondary characters. Terry Mancour and E. william brown are two fine examples of this. They are the Fantasy for the adolescent male who never grew up crowd. Making it not entirely about Tom lessens this. So while some of the other sections are boring as fuck, they are still worthwhile.
[quote=The Author Guy;1597]I’m hoping to figure out how to make the 2nd edition a free upgrade…not yet sure how that works[/quote]Hmm, you could include the 2nd Edition in book 2…
Hmm, sounds pretty standard for Japanese manga….
Personally, I find their tastes a bit vanilla for my liking, but to each his own. Not everyone can be as sick and depraved as me. It is an art form.
T-A-G is getting there, he’s just been tied up the last two weeks with day work, otherwise he’d probably be done and doing a first pass edit.
The hope is that Beta will start this month. That will be a few weeks, then off to editor for several weeks then publish. So target date for publication is end of June at this point, and that’s looking relatively good, unless the Beta Demons all vomit on the book and force a rewrite.
Yeah!
I just wish the real world worked like this forum and the more you talked, the higher your rank…
If the Abyss worked that way, I’d be Lillith’s boss by now!
who would sell there soul? Well one person that comes to mind is:
[SPOILER]Vaselle.[/SPOILER]
Ooh, yes, good idea, recruit more souls to my mailing list and that will keep you on Earth longer. Although to be honest, I don’t see the thrill. Other than the fact that most demons don’t have access to Amazon…yet. So not a lot of luck getting the third and fourth books here.
I hear Bezos is planning to open an Amazon.abyss soon; I guess the problem is last mile delivery, isn’t it always? He’s gotta summon up enough reliable imps to deliver packages. Plus, as Rosver would point out, he’s gotta develop flame resistant packaging and cooling containers.
I’m afraid those packaging costs, for the Abyss are likely to mean we won’t get Amazon Prime any time soon…
Your main complaint in beta was:
“I hate Jenn and Gastrope’s story; remove it; remove the Grove and the Nimbus or cut them down to almost nothing.” You also weren’t that happy with too much Hilda.
I did cut out the roller coaster. But cutting out the Grove and Gastrope’ and Jenn storylines sabotages stuff that comes later. I have to set things up for future events; otherwise there is no backstory or I have to spring it on people. That’s the [b]forest[/b]; you wanted me to start cutting down half the trees in it.
The POV’s were mentioned, but all about they are distracting us from Tom; not that they were confusing and certainly I saw no major complaints on the rehashing that said that exactly.
Here is the thing, Tom was stuck in a cave for several days while Talarius recovered and he figured out what to do. Now in book 1, he also spent a lot of time in the cave, and we sort of skipped over it in time and just said that he made furniture. We could do this because nothing else was happening. So time could jump a couple days for everyone.
This time, when he was stuck in the cave for several days, a LOT of other stuff was happening, a lot of stuff that was setting up future books and reactions from observers; the reaction scenes were things that lots of people had requested in various forums here and on Amazon and Goodreads had asked for; so I wanted to deliver. So while he is doing nothing, I covered the important stuff other people were doing.
What was I supposed to do during that time period? Have pages and pages of the guys in the cave navel gazing and having odd conversations with Tizzy and arguments with sleeping Talarius? I could have covered more Reggie, but that too would have been distracting to you.
You mentioned something in the review about the sex bothering you?
This is why I want you to try writing a book, a book who’s story you believe in and that you want to tell. I have constraints; the constraints of the story itself. You want me to toss them out because you don’t understand them. I can’t do this and still have “the story”
Now everyone wanted more action, more battles; I gave you all that. But you still weren’t happy.
Honestly, I had and have no idea what you wanted. You just told me what you didn’t want, which was like half the book. You don’t ever tell me what’s good; only what’s bad. So I have no idea what it is you actually want; just what you didn’t want. You are the reviewer of “No” but you can’t articulate why you say “no” you just say “no”
“I hate Hilda; I hate the Grove; it’s boring; it’s not going anywhere, it doesn’t add to the plot.” [b][i](FOREST ALERT–this is what you call the straw man)[/i][/b] I kept telling you yes it does add to the plot/story; you just can’t see it yet. But you said “cut it out anyway” and when I said I couldn’t; you didn’t work to make it better/more interesting you just went away.
So whatever, the books will march on and I will get feedback, input and even direction from those that want to provide it. But Rosver, it’s my story and I have to tell it. I will be guided by others, but I can’t please everyone. It just isn’t possible. If you don’t like it and don’t want to add constructive criticism that improves the book but only hack it to pieces, that’s your right. I’ll take it under advisement; but I’d really prefer you to be helpful and constructive and not so negative, defensive and curmudgeonly.
You have great insight and a keen mind, I just wish you’d use it to build rather than tear down.
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