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I think one of the things that everyone needs to keep in mind, particularly those that don’t like a long wait time between books is that for most authors, there is a remarkable difference in story quality linked to the time between books.
Book 1, which most everyone here thinks is much better is something that I worked on for years, literally, years. Yes, most of it was down time, but even the grand total of time ‘worked’ on it was about 3-4 years. But even in downtime I was reworking stuff in my head.
During that time, I wrote and rewrote and had discussions with people (very few by comparison to this beta).
As a rule things like the best humor come on the second or third pass. Dialogue almost invariably improves with writing and rewriting.
Same with plot tension, script tautness and cohesion.
This is not so much an excuse, as it is a simple fact.
My goal with the beta program is to try to accelerate this process, but it’s not easy. So, I appreciate all the help and feedback and keep it coming, but realize there are limits to what can be done without delaying things significantly, and maybe that will be necessary. We shall see.
I think that’s a good point.
Tom should really be the only super introspective/hide it all person. Each person needs their own “inner voice”
Gastrope’s inner dialogue is more about worry and anxiety and uncertainty, but he doesn’t really try to hide it, or is rally bad at it. You can literally read his inner dialogue by watching his face change colors.
Jenn, like Jehenna is strongly opinionated and stubborn. She can have inner dialogue but she’s one tough and determined cookie. She doesn’t really have time for nonsense. She has a very strong sense of self, a strong morality and goes for what she knows is right.
Talarius? I think his inner dialogue speaks for itself with its logic.
This is generally true. He has plenty of mana that regenerates on its own and he’s not using it in the cave.
It would only sort of be an issue at Mount Doom where you have to compete for the available mana with the “house”
Hmmmmmmm
I see your point.
Bummer, guess I need to do a third edition!
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Hmmmmmm…I need to think on this. In some ways this gives me an out for Tom on some guilt…but it creates some other real problems.
Boggy’s statement isn’t/wasn’t in my mind actually correct. It was just very hard to kill demons in the Abyss because they would keep regenerating short of something stopping them.OK, I could deal with that one statement, however….
The D’Orcs have had quite a bit of attrition. Both from the demons and from depression.
Yeah this is an issue.
And while at that, I probably need to go into more detail on where the D’Orc army in Etterdam went…they should have returned, they didn’t, so they were slain permanently in Etterdam. Where and how to get into this since Tom didn’t really question it…hmm…I think I shall have Tom pondering this.
Yeah, I’m thinking somewhat along those lines.
It will end up being a mix of things, and I think some of the answers will remain mysteries until book iii when Tom starts thinking about the logical consistency of it. Particularly how you get rid of thousands of D’Orcs.
But a crux is this, regenerating in the Abyss is different then dissolving and reforming weakly in the Abyss. Regenerating in the Abyss means growing back/healing from wounds, largest single piece.
How do we know which piece to start with, well, it’s a conscious or semiconscious effort on the part of the demon, choosing a starting point.
If you are literally disintegrated it could take a VERY VERY long time to come back and you might just give up. That’s what suicidal D’Orcs did.
They gave up. No one forces you to regenerate, you could give up, much like the alvar and sidhe do eventually and let yourself disperse.
Demons eventually go the same way other immortals go.
Now the problem is, a lot of demons were wiped out in the demon wars that happened up until the Orcus battle. There are ways/weapons that can kill demons, they are terrible weapons. But in many cases it’s just disintegrate someone so badly that it would take them so long to regenerate that they give up.
Yes, I suppose a good point. I need to go back and see exactly how Tom was juxtaposing new vs having a kid to Antefalken. Antefalken knows at some level that Tom is claiming to be new (this is from Book 1, which has been erased from my brain at this point)
Boggy told Antefalken that Tom is new, this was belied by Rupert’s existence. Don’t remember how he fudged it.
However, you do realize this is motivated particularly by you Rosver? You remember our conversations on wood drying up?
Skip looking back. I think this is a good detail opportunity.
âHow do you keep the wood from drying out?â Tom suddenly asked. âIâd think this place would literally be âHellâ on it.â Tom bit his tongue immediately after saying this. What exactly was it he had told Antefalken? Was he showing ignorance? Crap, these lies just kept piling up and now, he was so exhausted he couldnât keep up with them.
The bard smiled mischievously. âItâs Denubian Wyrmwood. Itâs quite at home in these environments. Takes a bit of Denubian worm slime now and then, but thatâs it.â The demon said, either not noticing or purposefully ignoring the slip.It is!!!!
This is deep Land of the Lost Voodoo.
The Altrusians are the hyper advanced sleestaks that show up later in the series. They are the sleestaks the built the all the portals and gateways in land of the lost.
The current sleestaks are the sort of sorry descendants and predecessors of the Altrusians. Yes, they are both, because apparently the altrusian civilization is cyclical in time…
So, should I clear this up better for people who may not remember every single episode of Land of the Lost?
(I actually didn’t remember in detail, wikipedia assisted me)
Clearly, the demon could have done serious damage to the Rod and priests, at a minimum he could have decimated them, a ten percent casualty rate would be minimal under the circumstances. He could have conceivably taken out half or more of them.
Excellent feedback, very helpful. No bash seen!
I get your point. I over/under did the grove in one fell swoop. I gave you the giant pot of goo and said “see” without explaining the grove.
And I really love the Hippie Israel analogy! That is so dead on!
I talk about the Grove, I think, in another post explaining the various groups, but maybe not well enough.
The Grove was founded, primarily as a haven for beings (what we would call mythological) fleeing from planes where certain religions and technology were forcing them out. In some way it’s a refugee camp/healing/repatriation camp for those fleeing worlds where magic is under attack, or various religions are driving out “pagans”
As such, they probably should have helped the Nyjyr Ennead when they were under attack by the Etonians, but the Nyjyr Enneads people were mostly human and a few sphinxes and similar egyptian creatures.
Now, it is VERY much a UN like collaboration as it’s managed by a multi-racial group of elders (the scene where the elders were discussing various things is the ruling council) Each of those elders is an ambassador of various races that are supporting/paying for the camp.
Elder of the Grove (Druids) Druid Senior Elder Elraith Castegones
Elder of the Grove (Centaurs) Chief Centaur Warrior Taergon Thunderhoof
Elder of the Grove (Satyrs/Fauns) High Priest of the God Pan Priest Satyricus
Elder of the Grove (Nymphs) Chosen of the Nymphs Nymph Daphne
Elder of the Grove (Dryads) Chosen of the Dryads Dryad Chloe
Elder of the Grove (???) Enchantress of the Grove Trevin D’Vils
Elder of the Grove (Elves) Prince of the Los Alvar Prince Ariel ap Auberon
Elder of the Grove (Dwarves) Geomancer of the Grove DuranorThere are some other players as well, but these are the ones we are introduced to. In particular there are some gods heavily involved.
There is a reason Trevin is sex starved by the way, it has to do with who she is/back story. She is supposed to sort of creep you out. She seriously creeps out Jenn and Gastrope’
Anyway, the battle lines are going to come with the Elves. They are going to be going whole hog nuts over the return of Mount Doom.
This will create problems for the Dwarves who are tied to Hephaestus, who is a strong supporter of Tom and Mount Doom, and of the Nyjyr Ennead (see the description of the various groups post)[Also, the Elvish God of War NĂ©t’s right hand man, Aodh is one of those that aligned with Lilith and Sentir Fallon to kill Orcus] he will be pushing the elves to take out Mount Doom.
So what we are setting up is, the Grove wanting to sort of back the Nyjyr Ennead this time around, and they are becoming wary of the Etonians, but the Nyjyr Ennead are getting closer to Tom (Hephaestus and Reggie’s accursed Mistress are all tied to the Nyjyr Ennead)
The Dwarves are going to get closer to the orcs and giants and other jotunns. Remember in Nordic mythology, the dwarves were typically aligned with the jotunns against Asgard. Mount Doom is the anti-Asgard crowd. And Elves and Dwarves generally don’t like each other.
Trevin is a member of the Council of Wizardy and so she has loyalties to that as well as Turelane to some extent as well as loyalties to another group we have now met in Book ii, that detail her origin.
So I think I probably need to delve more into what the grove is, if I am going to keep a lot of it there. Plus the tension between dwarves and elves needs to ramp up.
