Wizards and Demons

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    Well, I think that’s a matter of perspective…


    You say “sucks” but I say, sometimes a demon “catches a break.”

    And as to, someone’s gotta do it…I am pretty sure most demons would disagree with that statement.

    Of course, as you may recall, Antefalken and Damien discussed the problems with demonic procreation (specifically two demon parents) and so, from the point of view of demonic population growth, someone does need to do it. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have very many new baby demons.

    I guess the wizards in Astlan etc are just lucky that the Earths have a good supply of demon weed.



    Yep that’s all generally true, perhaps a few nuances.

    Shamans are a bit more nervous of demons than you indicate, but otherwise this is true. Although, again, this is also colored by race. Orc shamans are pretty much exactly how you describe shamans to be, los alfar shamans see demons similar to humans, or perhaps more rationally as enemies and evil–a lot more of this will come out in later books. The Dok alfar on the other hand are similar to orcs in outlook. But again they respect and are nervous of them because you never know exactly what mood or ‘history’ a demon might have. So I think it’s safe to say that most shamanic groups treat demons on an individual basis, some good, some neutral, some bad, some just NFW. But, yes not that differently than other spirits–just the most dangerous kind (and later books have more on spirits).

    Also, note that D’Orcs were not considered demons by the orcs. They really are more like Saints, since the orcs know where they come from and that they come from the mightiest warriors. The whole religious aspects of the Doompire were sort of a thin edged sword. Officially, the orcs are shamanistic and naturalists without worshiping gods–but that didn’t mean they didn’t accept the existence of gods–and Orcus rather pushed the limits on many fronts. I could go and on about the heated discussions on this topic.

    The thing to also keep in mind is that there was an intermediate time period of early wizardry where there were aniwizards—who where proto-wizards emerging from animages. So the process in Astlan was several thousand years.

    HOWEVER, you also need to keep in mind that the peculiar aspects of the planet Astlan also apply to the other planets in the same localverse. They have the same laws of magic, and the same myopic view of certain Earths. And some of those have had wizardry far longer than Astlan–and even in Astlan, rune magic predates modern wizardry, so a very long time ago, there were rune aniwizards that would use a combination of rune magic and animagic will to summon demons.

    So your description of how animages and wizards deal with demons today is very accurate–the actual historical development is a bit more complex or nuanced and the excessive demon conjuring by various groups in Astlan and it’s localverse has been going on a lot longer than what one might expect from the posted timeline for the development of wizardry. It’s been going on for an incredibly long time.

    But, yes, right now, and for the last thousand or so years, they’ve been in overdrive. Particularly in terms of the most powerful spells…those are far newer than the spells for lesser demons.

    By and large, regardless of method or profession, if you force a demon to come to you and make irrational demands and try to force them to do your bidding, and don’t want to pay you a living wage–they will try and kill you. On the other hand, if you request their presence nicely, and offer payment for services, you will probably live, whether or not they decide to do business with you. Obviously there are various error bars on this statement where things sort of go wrong.



    [SPOILER]Did you hack T-A-G and download a copy of Chronicles of Astlan: Into the Wilds????? [-x [/SPOILER]


    Ah, but remember, I am a fiend, I can’t dematerialize like a summoning…

    Actually, neither can Tom, he portals. He actually could fade once he figured it out, you basically just fade to the astral plane, but then where do you go? Having a link is very useful.

    However, as a Fiend, such things are beyond my powers.

    On the other hand, I can get a wizard to make me a doorbell. If I scare one enough, or pay one with something it finds valuable. Of course, what could I offer as payment? :-k


    Your memory is too good… [cursing]

    Hmm, would you believe it was the All Powerful Wizard Gastropus summoning me across time and space from 3,000 years in the future?


    [SPOILER]Actually, it was my doorbell ringing, not an accursed master. The doorbell does the summoning, it’s basically an alarm spell. It’s actually a big time saver in critical situations, saves me from having to fly a very long distance–and cross planes which is very hard for a fiend. See COA:ITW for more info. o:) [/SPOILER]


    I personally have never been summoned by a shaman, and to be honest, it’s been a very long time since I’ve been summoned, except by my current Accursed Master, Gastrope’. I think he was the first wizard to summon me in aeons. Which is a bit odd…

    Who summoned you from Tom’s cave while Boggy was telling Tom about how he killed his accursed master in chapter 27 of Into the Abyss?
    Not trying to be nit-picky, I was just listening to it and I remembered this post.


    He was probably checking on a stash or field. He needs to get his cookie ingredients somewhere.


    A plot? Is someone plotting against me? 8-[

    You mean on Asmeth’s ship in book 1? Let’s see, that was a LONG time ago, like 20 days or something…. :d/ Actually longer ago than that, since I am much further ahead in time than when T-A-G is writing, which is why I can recite the events to him.

    Just had to do a little shopping, so ran a few errands and then rejoined them on the ship.


    [quote=Tizzy;7702]I personally have never been summoned by a shaman, and to be honest, it’s been a very long time since I’ve been summoned, except by my current Accursed Master, Gastrope’. I think he was the first wizard to summon me in aeons. Which is a bit odd…[/quote]

    I may need to reread book 1, detecting a plot.
    Where did you go again while Tom was on the ship?


    The key problem was none of us here today, were there, otherwise we’d know what happened.

    And I can’t say much more without a mega spoiler for book 4. [-x


    I guess if you had been there( at the end). It would have come up since it would have been such a big deal


    There people go again!

    Why do people keep confusing me with the Concordenax? any time we’re in the same room together, it’s blatantly obvious we look nothing alike.

    I have nice, young, supple, greenish-yellow scales, the Concordenax has a brown leathery hide and unlike super helpful me, is a trouble maker that no one has seen in a very long time! Including me!

    I am forthright and forthcoming, and am always around to be helpful, while the Concordenax likes to play hard to get, and hide and seek and is very, very good at it.

    That’s one reason I call the Concordenax a trouble maker, never around when needed! Makes my life very difficult!


    At this point, I have two theories.
    1) Tizzy is the oldest demon, and where the legends of the concordenax come from. I doubt he was ever mortal. He was probably from some ancient race, possibly from before the current generation of gods. He probably annoyed the wrong person, and was cast into the abyss. He then spent millennia just doing his Tizzy thing, as other demons were created, and has forgotten his origins hundreds of times over. Any legend of the concordenax as some super powerful demon were either strait up lies, or someone trying to use the legend to gain fame. Any one doing that would have been quickly defeated and eaten, thus the concordenax has disappeared.
    2) Tizzy actually was the concordenax, but he made himself forget for some reason, sealing any memories and power into the form of a fiend, probably for the exact reasons Tizzy just gave.


    Well…I’m not saying that I didn’t…it’s really just a question of when I did that….


    Super! Thanks (to me, not T-A-G)!

    As you know, the characters seem real, because they are. This is a documentary of events that actually happened. I am narrating them to T-A-G and he is (incredibly slowly) transcribing them.

    Actually, Trevin has no alvaran blood, but you are correct that she is not human (but she is definitely a diplomat), despite appearances. One might see her advanced age as the clue.

    However, Elraith Castegones, the Senior Elder of the Grove is human and he is also centuries old, but that’s because of his druidic lore. As you probably know, druids eat a lot of granola and yogurt so….

    Alvea, yeah that’s her main role, so far, but it’s been at most a quarter month, so she’s still within the legal mourning period for humans. I think, we demons don’t have mourning periods.

    I personally find the tin can to be annoying, but he’s been useful to Tom, so….I won’t eat him. But, I’m sorry, the guy tried to kill me permanently on our first date. That’s rude if you ask me. Actually, I think that’s a serial killer sort of thing. Although since he was trying to kill a bunch of us permanently, he’s more like a mass murderer–or at least a wannabe.

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