Discrepancies from book 2
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Bk2: Exador shrugged. “I am sure Mephistopheles does. If Orcus hadn’t bit the dust, he wouldn’t be in the Triumvirate today.”
This implies that Orcus was part of the Courts of Chaos rather than just a separate political group. Now, I admit that he could have easily broken away, but if Meph becomes a member of the Triumvirate after Orcuc’s death then Orcus didn’t leave.
However, Mt. Doom per book 3 was setup in opposition to Lilith and the Courts.
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What happened to Trolg, the orc combat pilot aboard the Nimbus?
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Bk2: “Further, the reversal of Excrathadorus Mortis gives me great pause. You know my history with it, before I brought it to Astlan?” Sentir looked at the other avatars.
Bk2: Sentir Fallon sighed. “Talarius bore Excrathadorus Mortis by right of being the most senior Knight Rampant.
Bk2: Hilda shrugged, too tired to prevaricate. “Talarius was awarded with being its keeper nearly a decade ago. This extremely sacred blade was used in Etterdam by Sentir Fallon to slay the demon prince Orcus.”
However in book 3 Tiernon states Sentir Fallon said that the dagger was lost since Etterdam. Book 2 implies that Sentir knows exactly where it is and that it had been regularly handed over to member of the church on Astlan.
Not only that but this fact appears to be regular knowledge to more senior archons who’ve been around a while.
So, not lost.
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What happened to FOE? This was a big thing in book 2. Not just with the D’Orcs but others used the terms Forces of Evil and Forces of Good.
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Trisfelt never shared his suspicions about Rupert being a demon with Jenn? It is implied they have been communicating thought it was never explicitly stated. Or did I misread?
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Given the conversations in book 2 involving Beragamos it doesn’t seem to fit that he knew Orcus. I can’t point to any one passage, but his knowledge of demons, the Abyss, and the “true” nature of things does not fit for someone that is 300,000 years old since his last phoenix cycle.
Hilda’s bk3 thought about why he said nothing regarding Orcus in bk2 helps, but it still doesn’t mesh when you read them back-to-back.
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I’m about 50% through book 2. More later.
Beragamos say the same balling that the Tiernon and Torean saw. Why didn’t Beragamos recognize Tom as being familar? In book 2 the suspicion of Orcus is brought up and Beragamos [u][b]still[/b][/u] didn’t recall / recognize.
Side note: prior to releasing Book 2 for beta last year what did you plan to have it cover that got pushed to book 3 and book 4?
Ah, but Tiernon did. Even if he didn’t recognize it should have been familiar. Tiernon and Torean certainly had no trouble.
Then, consider the knowledge he imparts to the other about demons, the Abyss, etc.
Basically in bk2 Beragamos does not come off as a 300,000+ year old avatar.
Speaking of Beragamos’ age:
[quote]Beragamos sighed shaking his head. “In seventy-three thousand, four hundred and eighty-three years, give or take a few centuries depending on which planet we are talking about, I have done—I have been—many things, but I swear tonight is the first time that ‘horse thief’ was one of them.”[/quote]This kinda indicates that Beragamos has only been around for 70,000 and change years. Not 300,000.
[quote=Giwdul;5618]Speaking of Beragamos’ age:
[quote]Beragamos sighed shaking his head. “In seventy-three thousand, four hundred and eighty-three years, give or take a few centuries depending on which planet we are talking about, I have done—I have been—many things, but I swear tonight is the first time that ‘horse thief’ was one of them.”[/quote]This kinda indicates that Beragamos has only been around for 70,000 and change years. Not 300,000.[/quote]
Later in the book:
[quote]
Something was horribly, indescribably wrong. He felt at a complete loss, he felt empty, empty in a way he literally could not remember ever being before, at least not in any recent Phoenix Cycle. That would have to be at least three hundred thousand years.
[/quote]I much prefer the 70,000 version though. Makes him about the same age as Vosh An-non, but that may also make him younger than the wedding.
Remember that the Sentir Fallon dialogue contains lies and misdirection, and that he’s well enough covered by his position (it’s also his job to keep the lower saints ignorant of the big picture) that he doesn’t really necessarily feel the need to be consistent in his lies and misdirection, even if that would be neater.
[quote=Iume;5560]Given the conversations in book 2 involving Beragamos it doesn’t seem to fit that he knew Orcus.I can’t point to any one passage, but his knowledge of demons, the Abyss, and the “true” nature of things does not fit for someone that is 300,000 years old since his last phoenix cycle.
Hilda’s bk3 thought about why he said nothing regarding Orcus in bk2 helps, but it still doesn’t mesh when you read them back-to-back.[/quote]
Will take a look at what Beragamos said or didn’t say in book 2.
As the one who stuck the knife in him, Sentir should also recognize him. That makes me lean towards the idea that they think maybe imposter working off a good description. Tiernon and Torean have the similarity of his behavior, and Rupert’s presence to help the recognition. They could later blame the younger friendlier appearance on Orcus trying to throw them off just enough to achieve his goals.
[quote=Iume;5560]Bk2:Exador shrugged. “I am sure Mephistopheles does. If Orcus hadn’t bit the dust, he wouldn’t be in the Triumvirate today.”
This implies that Orcus was part of the Courts of Chaos rather than just a separate political group.Now, I admit that he could have easily broken away, but if Meph becomes a member of the Triumvirate after Orcuc’s death then Orcus didn’t leave.
However, Mt. Doom per book 3 was setup in opposition to Lilith and the Courts.[/quote]
Good catch, I need to read that to know more about what Exador knew of Orcus there vs what he knew in book 3.
We don’t know how much Exador really knew about what was going on.
Now as for the Triumvirate
It is possible for Orcus to be in the triumvirate and in opposition to the courts. These are demons so backstabbing is part of the job.
So here’s the thing: Orcus was part of the triumvirate well before Doom, he built Doom as a remote palace, as far as the Courts knew. They didn’t really discover it until putting in the Boom Tunnels and it was later than that that they realized what he was actually doing there.
That’s when things started to go to “hell”
I point out that Sammael and Lilith are renowned enemies, yet are the co-factors, membership in the Courts is not due to friendship, but more due to power.
Take a look at Antefalken’s guide to the Courts in the Library, you have 3 factions, 1 faction is Lilith, the other Sammael and the rest are currently unaligned or indeterminate.
[quote=Iume;5560]What happened to Trolg, the orc combat pilot aboard the Nimbus?[/quote]
Still there, just haven’t done any combat this book.
[quote=Iume;5560]However in book 3 Tiernon states Sentir Fallon said that the dagger was lost since Etterdam.Book 2 implies that Sentir knows exactly where it is and that it had been regularly handed over to member of the church on Astlan.[/quote]
Narg! Super Flag!
[quote=Iume;5609]Beragamos say the same balling that the Tiernon and Torean saw.Why didn’t Beragamos recognize Tom as being familar?In book 2 the suspicion of Orcus is brought up and Beragamos [u][b]still[/b][/u] didn’t recall / recognize.[/quote]
The key is not in what he said to the lower levels, the key is what he would say with Tiernon.
Not saying anything to Hilda and Stevos is just keeping confidence with Tiernon, particularly since Sentir Fallon is sitting right there.
The question is, why did Sentir Fallon not recognize him?
[quote=Iume;5560]Trisfelt never shared his suspicions about Rupert being a demon with Jenn?It is implied they have been communicating thought it was never explicitly stated.Or did I misread?[/quote]
Can you refresh me on these suspicions. I don’t think it was stated that strongly in book 1. He was puzzled by the horses fearing him, but did not, I think, suspect he was a demon.
Or are you thinking of something in Book 2?
[quote=Iume;5681]Book 2.Hilda and Trisfelt saw the recording, Danyel said the greater demon was named Rupert, Trisfelt recalled the problem with the horses, some more discussion, Trisfelt seemed fairly certain but still willing to doubt.[/quote]
Very true. However, they only had a very short time together after that (I think) he was puzzled, but not certain. He thought on it, then suddenly she’s leaving. Given the situation, would you want to have THAT conversation with Jenn right before she’s about to leave for who knows how longs. [b]Particularly if you aren’t sure.[/b]
This is Jenn we are talking about. Such a theory would be met with massive push-back and drama. Would it be worth it?
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