True Names
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Interesting, so it takes something fairly catastrophic to change your true name then.
The Jr/Sr example was kinda weak but it was the only real life example I could think of. However I was more referring to stories I have read (sorry I blanking on the names) that had the people (or sometimes aliens) names grow as they aged and/or gained status, it being to them a integral part of their culture. That is more what I’m talking about.
Also was it the bindings themselves that solidified the Tom’s name or him naming himself in the astral? What if he had not named himself?
Another thought I have had about true names is why is it a one way sort of bond? I would think that by knowing someones true name you have essentially taken the heart of their being into your mind, I would think that would allow the beings whose name you knew access to your mind/soul/power etc.
In these kind of cases (along with the classic voodoo doll situation) why is lesser to greater so much more powerful then greater to lesser I wonder? After all you are in possession of the whole of you, so you think that would allow you to affect the lesser parts elsewhere – true names, blood, hair, etc.
[quote=Anskier;200]
What if he had not named himself?
[/quote]
I think he was under compulsion to name himself / part of the binding.Ok so I understand that if two Demons somehow managed to merge together there true name would change. What about 1 Demon splitting himself into two or more separate demons and or non demons? Would this be possible in any fashion? And if so wouldn’t this also cause the true name of the now separate entities to change?
Interesting question. In particular for some of those demons that have split personalities…can’t think of any off the top of my head, but I know there are some crazy demons out there.
:-k
I think it would be sort of up to the demon on the names changed, like a father naming his children. Of course if the demon isn’t that bright he might not think to do it and some sort of auto designation would have to occur. Perhaps like in DID (Disociative Identity Disorder-AK multiple personalities) where each personality has a name, Sybil, Vickie, Peggy so maybe Sybil Prime, Sybil-Vickie, Sybil-Peggy
Although one should hope for better demon names. Sybil is good, but a demon named Peggy? That’s about as ridiculous as a demon named “Tom”
These new demons, they have no respect for the old naming conventions like my old friend Astaroth Nesferith Giger Prometheon or Buford Terrence Malachai Ezekiel…those were names…and easy to split up when their personalities finally broke down after a couple millenia of torture…
Ok now you have me wondering why Toms true name is unique.
Was Tom Reborn so had a true name already that he changed to some other name when he named himself. After all he had a True name but somehow the naming of himself changed his name to make it his new true name. Or oh wait you said that a deity could possibly change ones true name. Could he perhaps be a deity that has been reborn and changed his own true name. Because he should have had a true name and unless his true name just happened to be the same as his given name then how did it change?
Is this unique to Tom or do all individuals from worlds that don’t know there true names change there own name to become there true name when compelled to tell there name?
Or perhaps he was the Demon king in disguise and he just wanted to visit earth for a while so had himself born as a human baby and then at a designated time had it arranged for himself to get a special demon class weed to send him to the astral plane where he could be returned to Astlan where he would then gain a new body.
Stop me now before I go crazy and think that Tizzy is secretly trying to take over the multiverse with purple unicorns and flying elephants.
I don’t want to scare you, but you are closer to the truth than you think…
You clearly are rapidly approaching the same mental plane of existence that I like to dwell on….
Actually, there is a fairly simple answer to the Tom’s true name question…but in order to know it, you’d have to be able to read that book that everyone is hot and bothered about.
I’ve had similar thoughts, but if time flows the same in all planes of man, but the whole Rupert thing always comes up and ruins most of my thoughts. However Rupert has to have a powerful father if he is a fourth class demon despite being a half-breed. Their also has to be a relation between the two as they look to similar, so I’m going to go back to Tom’s previously mentioned deceased father who could have been a reincarnation of a more powerful demon. If so it would explain Tom’s naturally large animus as most demon’s are halfway between their parents, and since earth has so little mana his demonic traits would never manifest. Pure speculation but it does give a relative of Tom’s who died about eleven years ago, while Rupert is eleven years of age. As mentioned Rupert isn’t the 10 he appears to be, but 11. Little actual difference so his maturity can be explained by his suspicions in others and the factt that most of the Astlanians are highly paranoid, superstitious, and have yet to question the why of things as they can create effects without a through understanding in many cases. They do have a broad knowledge base, but it is heavily guarded and they bring their superstitions into everything and it often alters their perceptions of reality.
That just makes me think that maybe Rupert is in fact Toms father but reborn. Now what if his father was just a normal human but then was reborn as half demon because his new father was a very powerful demon.
The real question is if someone is reborn do past family connections have any relevance or do these things usually not matter at all. Because if being reborn breaks all previous ties and previous connections family or not then I would see this theory as wrong as well.
Interesting thoughts…could have used them when figuring out the truth myself.
One thing I can promise you, because I’ve promised it at Amazon discussion, and because I did once torture a friend with this idea who was giving me feedback while writing the book…
In an the next “Series” (after the first X books) Tom does NOT master Temporamastery and travel back in time and sleep with Rupert’s mother. That categorically doesn’t happen.
No, instead, he travels back in time and to earth and becomes his own father…. No…no…no…that doesn’t happen either.
Do all things poses a true name living an inanimate. Like certain objects of power have unique names and certain objects have common names that give on more control over it like in the Eragon where you can summon the essence of an object or bring it’s potential to it fullest. As a true name gave one complete control over the person or object in question, but I would guess it isn’t so extreme in this novel as demons can still resist to an extent in that without a connection they can resist those with knowledge of their name.
Only living/sentient things have distinct true names. The true name is tied to self identity.
non-sentient living things have names associated with them that can be used to manipulate them, thaumaturgists use these, I believe. Not really sure.
There are also various words for commanding and controlling elements, but I don’t know much about that.
It’s rather complicated, and I’m not a wizard. A wizard would be better able to explain this.
OK, and some people in reviews said that the Astlanian’s are paranoid…JMBT is therefore obviously a wizard from Astlan since JMBT is more paranoid than most of them….
As far as I know, Tom never changed his name. From what I (told the author) know, Jehenna misspelled his name on the ring.
His full name is Thomas Edward Perkinje at least based on what he told Lenamare. of course one could ask, does anyone on Earth really know their true name?
And it seems to me that trying to get your true name changed would be even harder than trying to change your name at the DMV.
This, of course, ties in with the discussion of an afterlife and reincarnation.
Clearly, for reincarnation and afterlifes to work, the religious types need a handle to manage the soul’s itinerary. I doubt they use UPS or FedEx tracking numbers, so they need something which would be the true name. So in that case the true name would travel with the soul.
Now, how a father/mother would know this…and also everyone one has a family name, but you keep getting born into another family name each time you reincarnate. (Unless you are Exador but he’s faking it)
So eventually, you’d have one seriously long name.
Works fine for new soul births though. No baggage there.
nothing is ever enough especially when you’re in the magic business =;
my motto.
It’s not safe till it’s safe.
oh thats right, Lenamare named him tOmasedwardperkinje, but his name is tHOmasedwardperkinje.
Everything you are saying is Greek to me.
o:)
The Astlanians don’t speak English, it’s been translated by me in reciting to the author.
Their English is about as good as their Latin, which you can see from the book is pretty odd.
There is actually away to spell Tom’s real name in Astlanian…but between accent and common usage it was mainly just a stupid screw up that they didn’t catch.
And that, my friend, is what we demons live for. Mistakes! Remember the (in)famous saying:
[b]To err is human, to take advantage of err is demon![/b]
If you consider the complexity of languages, mispronunciation and misspellings is more that likely. It probably happen often.
Well, I will explain things further to you Tizzy.
Language is extrememly complex. Lets start with speech/spoken language
In speech, you communicate with sound we create with our mouth, throat, nose, etc. We are able to create different sounds with our speaking devices. Sounds like |s|, |b|, |p|, |e|, etc. These different sounds used in speech is called phonemes.
We are capable of making hundreds of these phonemes but each language only use a fraction of these available phonemes in its phoneme set. English for example uses about 40. Other languages uses up to more than a hundred phonemes. Other uses less to about a dozen of these phonemes. This difference of phoneme sets creates problems. Essentially it makes it impossible for one language to actually pronounce words from another language correctly.
There are also rules of how these phonemes are combined for each language thereby creating another layer of complexity making it the impossible even more difficult.
Say let say a Japanese person would speak the name Rupert. One characteristic in Japanese language is that they only use a limited set of syllables. They had a sylable ‘ru’ but they don’t have the syllable ‘pert.’ These makes it impossible in their language to pronounce these correctly because they don’t have the ‘pert’ sylable. The closest they could get is to pronounce it like this ru-pe-ru-to. Now that is four sylables not two as like the original. ](*,)
You could try and experience how difficult this really is, try speaking a language that contains phonemes that isn’t used in the English language (you’re Eglish speaker right?:-k ) and have a different speech pattern. Try following this How to Speak Mandarin tutorial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLGHLQq_hyg
Notice the letters with strange markings bellow the Mandarin texts. Can you read them?
Or try this strange language, the ‘clicking’ language these natives in the documentary speaks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c246fZ-7z1w
Now imagine what the names of these people would be. Could you even speak them? :-s
Also there are very interesting rules that other languages follow that are quite alien to English speakers. For example, in Mandarin a difference in pitch of a single sylable could change the meaning of the word even though the words are the same phonically. You might not be calling the person in their correct name because you don’t get the pitch of a sylable in their names right.
There is also the language used by the deaf and mute. The Sign Language. This don’t use sounds and, yes, these people do have sign language ‘names’ they use which is just a bunch of motions and has no corresponding sound attached to it.
Not to mention, these people might not even know how to speak their names. How could they when they can’t speak or hear their names. Even if they are magicaly given the ability to speak and hear, they don’t have the skill to do it. The mute never have spoken it would have as much dificulty as a baby speaking their first words. And the deaf never even know what their names sounds like. Then you ask them to speak it?
Now these is just human speech. In the book, it is clear that there are non humans. One is reptilian in nature. Now these nonhuman species would even have even different sound and phonemes in their languages.
Think of the dolphins. They are said to have a spoken language, in all their clicks, and razz, and whistles. Many of the sound the dolphin makes is even supersonic and out of humans hearing range. Now how could you even speak language like that when your mouth and throat is not even designed to make those sounds? Not to mention, you can’t even hear many of those sounds.
Now, mispronunciation? Hahahahahahahah. LOL. LMAO. I have to laugh at that.
Now, we don’t even touch about writing yet. :d/
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