True Names
- This topic has 111 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 6 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
OK,
This is a very interesting question that SERIOUSLY gets ignored way too much.
And it’s also something I’ve wondered about, particularly the “how do you know your true name?”
In theory, your father (or mother depending on culture) will name you with a true name at birth, and then your mother, father and “god parents” are entrusted with this name until you are old enough to remember it on your own (of course they will still know it). Or it may come from a priest.
If your parents die when you are young, it would be your god parents job to tell you.
Obviously this doesn’t always work.
In Astlan, the exact rules are handled by your religion. It might be a parent naming you, but in many cases, your true name comes from the priest, and your parents only give you a calling/common name. The reason for this? If you are being reincarnated, your true name remains the same and the priest receives it from the deity or an avatar upon recognizing that you are “born again”
So, if all else fails, say your parents died before telling you, as did your god parents, then you’d need to go to a priest of your religion to find out.
Now, what to do if you are an atheist?
First, as will become very clear in book ii. Being an atheist in Astlan, is simply not a good idea. There are people, particularly hermetic druids, that are basically atheists, but one pays a HUGE price for being an atheist.
With your physical presence a seer or sorcerer can probably figure out your true name. It may require a quest.
As a rule, true names don’t ever change. Titles, and honorifics don’t change. As far as Jr. Sr. Those presume that you have parents/grandparents with the same name, thus your true name will generally have a “the second, the third” in it…or, it may not be any of those…your calling name is not really your true name.
The only time a true name would change would be if two beings literally merged with each other….then it’s probably a hyphenate.
In the case of Tom. Earth doesn’t use True Names any more. So in his case, he essentially “named himself” when he was summoned. yes that was his name before, but it became set in stone with the bindings….
Following this logic (and Jack Chalker’s) a deity could possibly change someone’s true name.
Now, as to why true names aren’t particularly used on Earth anymore…that’s a question for book IV, I think….
Interesting, so it takes something fairly catastrophic to change your true name then.
The Jr/Sr example was kinda weak but it was the only real life example I could think of. However I was more referring to stories I have read (sorry I blanking on the names) that had the people (or sometimes aliens) names grow as they aged and/or gained status, it being to them a integral part of their culture. That is more what I’m talking about.
Also was it the bindings themselves that solidified the Tom’s name or him naming himself in the astral? What if he had not named himself?
Another thought I have had about true names is why is it a one way sort of bond? I would think that by knowing someones true name you have essentially taken the heart of their being into your mind, I would think that would allow the beings whose name you knew access to your mind/soul/power etc.
In these kind of cases (along with the classic voodoo doll situation) why is lesser to greater so much more powerful then greater to lesser I wonder? After all you are in possession of the whole of you, so you think that would allow you to affect the lesser parts elsewhere – true names, blood, hair, etc.
[quote=Anskier;200]
What if he had not named himself?
[/quote]
I think he was under compulsion to name himself / part of the binding.Ok so I understand that if two Demons somehow managed to merge together there true name would change. What about 1 Demon splitting himself into two or more separate demons and or non demons? Would this be possible in any fashion? And if so wouldn’t this also cause the true name of the now separate entities to change?
Interesting question. In particular for some of those demons that have split personalities…can’t think of any off the top of my head, but I know there are some crazy demons out there.
:-k
I think it would be sort of up to the demon on the names changed, like a father naming his children. Of course if the demon isn’t that bright he might not think to do it and some sort of auto designation would have to occur. Perhaps like in DID (Disociative Identity Disorder-AK multiple personalities) where each personality has a name, Sybil, Vickie, Peggy so maybe Sybil Prime, Sybil-Vickie, Sybil-Peggy
Although one should hope for better demon names. Sybil is good, but a demon named Peggy? That’s about as ridiculous as a demon named “Tom”
These new demons, they have no respect for the old naming conventions like my old friend Astaroth Nesferith Giger Prometheon or Buford Terrence Malachai Ezekiel…those were names…and easy to split up when their personalities finally broke down after a couple millenia of torture…
Ok now you have me wondering why Toms true name is unique.
Was Tom Reborn so had a true name already that he changed to some other name when he named himself. After all he had a True name but somehow the naming of himself changed his name to make it his new true name. Or oh wait you said that a deity could possibly change ones true name. Could he perhaps be a deity that has been reborn and changed his own true name. Because he should have had a true name and unless his true name just happened to be the same as his given name then how did it change?
Is this unique to Tom or do all individuals from worlds that don’t know there true names change there own name to become there true name when compelled to tell there name?
Or perhaps he was the Demon king in disguise and he just wanted to visit earth for a while so had himself born as a human baby and then at a designated time had it arranged for himself to get a special demon class weed to send him to the astral plane where he could be returned to Astlan where he would then gain a new body.
Stop me now before I go crazy and think that Tizzy is secretly trying to take over the multiverse with purple unicorns and flying elephants.
I don’t want to scare you, but you are closer to the truth than you think…
You clearly are rapidly approaching the same mental plane of existence that I like to dwell on….
Actually, there is a fairly simple answer to the Tom’s true name question…but in order to know it, you’d have to be able to read that book that everyone is hot and bothered about.
I’ve had similar thoughts, but if time flows the same in all planes of man, but the whole Rupert thing always comes up and ruins most of my thoughts. However Rupert has to have a powerful father if he is a fourth class demon despite being a half-breed. Their also has to be a relation between the two as they look to similar, so I’m going to go back to Tom’s previously mentioned deceased father who could have been a reincarnation of a more powerful demon. If so it would explain Tom’s naturally large animus as most demon’s are halfway between their parents, and since earth has so little mana his demonic traits would never manifest. Pure speculation but it does give a relative of Tom’s who died about eleven years ago, while Rupert is eleven years of age. As mentioned Rupert isn’t the 10 he appears to be, but 11. Little actual difference so his maturity can be explained by his suspicions in others and the factt that most of the Astlanians are highly paranoid, superstitious, and have yet to question the why of things as they can create effects without a through understanding in many cases. They do have a broad knowledge base, but it is heavily guarded and they bring their superstitions into everything and it often alters their perceptions of reality.
That just makes me think that maybe Rupert is in fact Toms father but reborn. Now what if his father was just a normal human but then was reborn as half demon because his new father was a very powerful demon.
The real question is if someone is reborn do past family connections have any relevance or do these things usually not matter at all. Because if being reborn breaks all previous ties and previous connections family or not then I would see this theory as wrong as well.
Interesting thoughts…could have used them when figuring out the truth myself.
One thing I can promise you, because I’ve promised it at Amazon discussion, and because I did once torture a friend with this idea who was giving me feedback while writing the book…
In an the next “Series” (after the first X books) Tom does NOT master Temporamastery and travel back in time and sleep with Rupert’s mother. That categorically doesn’t happen.
No, instead, he travels back in time and to earth and becomes his own father…. No…no…no…that doesn’t happen either.
Do all things poses a true name living an inanimate. Like certain objects of power have unique names and certain objects have common names that give on more control over it like in the Eragon where you can summon the essence of an object or bring it’s potential to it fullest. As a true name gave one complete control over the person or object in question, but I would guess it isn’t so extreme in this novel as demons can still resist to an extent in that without a connection they can resist those with knowledge of their name.
Only living/sentient things have distinct true names. The true name is tied to self identity.
non-sentient living things have names associated with them that can be used to manipulate them, thaumaturgists use these, I believe. Not really sure.
There are also various words for commanding and controlling elements, but I don’t know much about that.
It’s rather complicated, and I’m not a wizard. A wizard would be better able to explain this.
OK, and some people in reviews said that the Astlanian’s are paranoid…JMBT is therefore obviously a wizard from Astlan since JMBT is more paranoid than most of them….
As far as I know, Tom never changed his name. From what I (told the author) know, Jehenna misspelled his name on the ring.
His full name is Thomas Edward Perkinje at least based on what he told Lenamare. of course one could ask, does anyone on Earth really know their true name?
And it seems to me that trying to get your true name changed would be even harder than trying to change your name at the DMV.
This, of course, ties in with the discussion of an afterlife and reincarnation.
Clearly, for reincarnation and afterlifes to work, the religious types need a handle to manage the soul’s itinerary. I doubt they use UPS or FedEx tracking numbers, so they need something which would be the true name. So in that case the true name would travel with the soul.
Now, how a father/mother would know this…and also everyone one has a family name, but you keep getting born into another family name each time you reincarnate. (Unless you are Exador but he’s faking it)
So eventually, you’d have one seriously long name.
Works fine for new soul births though. No baggage there.
nothing is ever enough especially when you’re in the magic business =;
my motto.
It’s not safe till it’s safe.
oh thats right, Lenamare named him tOmasedwardperkinje, but his name is tHOmasedwardperkinje.
Everything you are saying is Greek to me.
o:)
The Astlanians don’t speak English, it’s been translated by me in reciting to the author.
Their English is about as good as their Latin, which you can see from the book is pretty odd.
There is actually away to spell Tom’s real name in Astlanian…but between accent and common usage it was mainly just a stupid screw up that they didn’t catch.
And that, my friend, is what we demons live for. Mistakes! Remember the (in)famous saying:
[b]To err is human, to take advantage of err is demon![/b]
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.