Some thoughts about Book 2
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[quote=Tizzy;3009]In fact I just came from where they are and Bellyachus was living up to his name….
Oh, they were able to get his head out of his butt though!I suppose that’s the important thing.But jeez those horns of his really had to hurt going in, and coming out.[/quote]
Owww! I didn’t think of the horns at all! That must have hurt.
Ok, I can’t get the Lethal Weapon image out of my head.
[quote=The Author Guy;3434]
Now, all that being said, the ability to create an adhoc form and hold it for any length of time without it shifting or melting or turning red and horny is an impressive thing. However, he didn’t have to hold it that long, and only talarius had a close up view, and might not have been paying attention if things like eye color/shape of nose were sort of fluid from moment to moment.
[/quote]Ah, but he managed to hold the shape even after getting stabbed in the gut by Gutthis Morthis, or whatever it was called.
[quote=The Author Guy;3207]
rather than an actively malevolent one like Exador or Lillith.[/quote]What slander I have to read here?Edit:
They are heroes, hopefully Tommus grows up and gets more like them o:)I’m thinking that it’s not such a matter of power, but mental flexibility. Not every demon can shapeshift. From what’s been said so far, many demons have the power and ability, but can’t seem to get their minds wrapped around being another individual. Now add in being another GENDER which you have no mental reference for, and it becomes exponentially more difficult.
So, to answer your question, I’d think it’d be possible, but not likely. The individual in question would have to be VERY mentally flexible, have the requisite power, and have a very stable self-identity to be able to switch back and forth. Kind of narrows the field down a bit.
Tom could probably do it, but I’m thinking it would cause a lot more problems with him getting laid. :-“
[quote=Gelcube;3432]Which makes Tom very interesting, as at the end of ITA, he didn’t go to a memorized form, he made up one on the spot that he’d never taken before.[/quote]
Or does Tom really have some unconscious connection to Sporkus, and pulled the form from those memories?
Surely T-A-G didn’t break continuity just for some cheap storytelling convenience, like some dirty LitRPG hippie?
You know, that’s not the first book I’ve read that particular trick in. I can’t for the life of me remember WHICH book I read it in, but I remember it.
Really nasty when you think about it. Humans sure are inventive figuring out ways to DIS-figure each other.
No, that was hot wire mesh to the hands. That book was knives under the skin, not skinning. Maybe that book? No, that was just beatings and sleep deprivation. Which book was it? My first memory of the Salt Trick was from sitting around playing ADD when I was in Jr High/High School.
Someone brought it up/thought it up while we were discussing dungeon tortures.
Not at all sure who; it might have been me, but I can’t be sure.And it has stuck with me ever since. I actually scaled it back a little bit in the final edit of book 1.
In the original drafts (from the 80’s) Lenamare was one of very few people to have successfully done it. It was a much stronger statement.
Having had many years to grow and develop Lenamare, I changed it and shifted it more to Exador’s province
The original Lenamare was more evil then the current one. Now he’s more of a run of the mill narcissistic sociopath rather than an actively malevolent one like Exador or Lillith. He doesn’t go out of his way to harm people; he just doesn’t give much thought to them unless they have some sort of recognizable value to him.
And I really need to nail down the spelling of that woman’s name. I spell it randomly every time I type it.
I never thought of these during the beta read, but now that I’ve had weeks upon weeks to let everything settle and be stirred by other thoughts I had some very interesting to wonder about.
#1 – New Eton is governed by 5 powers — the crown and the 4 main gods. Presumably the emperor has enough political power to be separate from the church of Torean. So, what exactly is going back home after Tom’s little adventurer? None of the other gods or their servants are getting involved?
#2 – What are the creation myths of Astlan given that you [b]can[/b] talk to gods and ask? What is the Church of Tiernon’s version? All we’ve got is Aetherus created the multiverse — the end. Where does the Abyss fit in this? Is Aetherus’s creation more like Judeo-Christian (god & world are separate) or more like Greek/Egpytian/Norse mythology (world is part of the body of a primordial being which may or may not still be alive). What is the Council’s opinion on the matter?
#3 – Civilization seems to be slowly developing. Much slower than Earth. I suppose the occasional godly scuffle can set mortal progress back quite a bit, but are there any deliberate attempts by higher powers to prevent a technological civilization from rising? Book 2 seems to indicate that Astlan is for whatever reason rather static.
Hi,
Good points, here’s my thoughts:
#1 New Etonia is governed by the Holy Etonian Emperor and the 4 High Pontificates of each church. Very important to note this isn’t the same as the gods.
One thing we started to see in book ii was that the “Church” and the “Heavens” aren’t always on the same page. In book II, Hilda etal basically doesn’t trust the “Church” to be honest in accounting for the screw up. We will start to see more detail on this in book iii as Stevos and Teragdor have to work with the church offices to setup ground operations to watch for a D’Orc invasion. Basically the heavens and the church are not currently talking to each other.
We also see this in the fact that the Church in its alliance with Oorstemoth has not at all mentioned said operation to the Heavens. You can be absolutely certain that if the Archons knew about the Inferno and a planned church invasion of the Abyss, they would (will) have a freak out.
There are huge Compacts regulating interaction between pantheons and the Abyss. Lillith and friends are in clear/huge violation of this already and Oorstemoth, Church of Tiernon in Astlan are going to also violate it.
But back to the Council. A lot depends on the current members of the Council and the current Emperor in terms of the balance of power. We will start to see some of this in book iii…but I am not sure when/how exactly it comes in.
There is a lot of interesting stuff going on, but including it gets distracting to a lot of people (see too many POV/storylines) I am debating on how to spin off other shorter “sideline” series (E.g. The Seas of Astlan for the Captain Asmeth story cut from book ii). Who knows some of it may not get told until after the fact.
#2 This is actually a good question and stuff that should go into the library. I don’t have all that written yet, nor resolved with it. I’ve been a bit more focused on the Abyss’ creation mythology and the other stories and trying to reconcile all with the “real” story of creation or some version of it that could be consistent across multiple religions.
The idea for me, of course, is to make them semi-consistent with specific pantheon versions focusing on their side of the story. This is something that was always complicated when different societies merged and their pantheons had to be reconciled historically. Unfortunately, when there is NO question that the deities are real people, you can’t just easily write them off and forget the ones that are inconvenient to your narrative.
#3 Actually, civilization in Astlan is evolving very differently than on Earth, but is not static. The last few thousand years have seen a lot of progress thanks to better formalization and dissemination of wizardry across the globe. So from a technology point of view, Astlan is pretty close to on par with Earth, but with Wizardry being the Technology.
What is not so evolved is the democratic distribution of that technology, that is slower, but still better than it used to be. Astlan has very high levels of income and wizardry inequality. Wizardy works very well for the rich and powerful, but the trickle down to the masses is much slower/worse than technology on earth.
This is in large part because of politics and this is because Astlan is still pretty feudal and that is because they have some serious disparities in power between individuals. E.g. Gods, Archdemons, Clerics, Super Wizards, Anilords etc all are hugely powerful, and don’t require an industrial base.
That was the big thing on Earth. In order for the Nation Powers to advance and get more powerful, they had to build powerful industrial bases which in turn led to more wealth distribution and democratization of power.
In Astlan, Gods, Demigods, Elves and Dwarves etc (with their advanced technology) and the Anilords and powerful wizards did not require the same industrial base in order to lay waste to their enemies. There were/are still huge inequalities in power.
It’s these huge inequalities that make Astlan seem backward or more static than Earth. It’s like urban vs rural in much of the second and third worlds of Earth. In large parts of our world, there are very advanced cities with iphones, high speed internet, MTV, but in the countryside you have people using oxen and living by candles or lanterns and cooking on wooden fires.
North Korea is one rather insane example of this but you see it a lot in other regions as well.
Hi,
Good points, here’s my thoughts:
#1 New Etonia is governed by the Holy Etonian Emperor and the 4 High Pontificates of each church. Very important to note this isn’t the same as the gods.
One thing we started to see in book ii was that the “Church” and the “Heavens” aren’t always on the same page. In book II, Hilda etal basically doesn’t trust the “Church” to be honest in accounting for the screw up. We will start to see more detail on this in book iii as Stevos and Teragdor have to work with the church offices to setup ground operations to watch for a D’Orc invasion. Basically the heavens and the church are not currently talking to each other.
We also see this in the fact that the Church in its alliance with Oorstemoth has not at all mentioned said operation to the Heavens. You can be absolutely certain that if the Archons knew about the Inferno and a planned church invasion of the Abyss, they would (will) have a freak out.
There are huge Compacts regulating interaction between pantheons and the Abyss. Lillith and friends are in clear/huge violation of this already and Oorstemoth, Church of Tiernon in Astlan are going to also violate it.
But back to the Council. A lot depends on the current members of the Council and the current Emperor in terms of the balance of power. We will start to see some of this in book iii…but I am not sure when/how exactly it comes in.
There is a lot of interesting stuff going on, but including it gets distracting to a lot of people (see too many POV/storylines) I am debating on how to spin off other shorter “sideline” series (E.g. The Seas of Astlan for the Captain Asmeth story cut from book ii). Who knows some of it may not get told until after the fact.
#2 This is actually a good question and stuff that should go into the library. I don’t have all that written yet, nor resolved with it. I’ve been a bit more focused on the Abyss’ creation mythology and the other stories and trying to reconcile all with the “real” story of creation or some version of it that could be consistent across multiple religions.
The idea for me, of course, is to make them semi-consistent with specific pantheon versions focusing on their side of the story. This is something that was always complicated when different societies merged and their pantheons had to be reconciled historically. Unfortunately, when there is NO question that the deities are real people, you can’t just easily write them off and forget the ones that are inconvenient to your narrative.
#3 Actually, civilization in Astlan is evolving very differently than on Earth, but is not static. The last few thousand years have seen a lot of progress thanks to better formalization and dissemination of wizardry across the globe. So from a technology point of view, Astlan is pretty close to on par with Earth, but with Wizardry being the Technology.
What is not so evolved is the democratic distribution of that technology, that is slower, but still better than it used to be. Astlan has very high levels of income and wizardry inequality. Wizardy works very well for the rich and powerful, but the trickle down to the masses is much slower/worse than technology on earth.
This is in large part because of politics and this is because Astlan is still pretty feudal and that is because they have some serious disparities in power between individuals. E.g. Gods, Archdemons, Clerics, Super Wizards, Anilords etc all are hugely powerful, and don’t require an industrial base.
That was the big thing on Earth. In order for the Nation Powers to advance and get more powerful, they had to build powerful industrial bases which in turn led to more wealth distribution and democratization of power.
In Astlan, Gods, Demigods, Elves and Dwarves etc (with their advanced technology) and the Anilords and powerful wizards did not require the same industrial base in order to lay waste to their enemies. There were/are still huge inequalities in power.
It’s these huge inequalities that make Astlan seem backward or more static than Earth. It’s like urban vs rural in much of the second and third worlds of Earth. In large parts of our world, there are very advanced cities with iphones, high speed internet, MTV, but in the countryside you have people using oxen and living by candles or lanterns and cooking on wooden fires.
North Korea is one rather insane example of this but you see it a lot in other regions as well.
I have no idea who this Kristof guy is…OK…maybe a little. I’ve got stuff from T-A-G to post in the Library. Look for new information to follow last nights map update later today.
You can maybe tell a little now from the House of Torson family tree which went up yesterday; the map update had names for the larger towns in the Wilds of Eton and a section on it is coming today.
Of course, Iume knows what happens to Lesteroth and Bellyachus…it was in the earlier drafts but got moved to the beginning of book iii
But it won’t spoil too much by telling you that they will be back in Volume III.
In fact I just came from where they are and Bellyachus was living up to his name….
Oh, they were able to get his head out of his butt though! I suppose that’s the important thing. But jeez those horns of his really had to hurt going in, and coming out.
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