Welcome To Astlan Forums General Questions Re-Demonization

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    Do demons have material bodies on the astral plane?


    I have been wondering about something: would it be possible to re-demonize a demon?
    Take a low level demon like Antefalken and send him out on the astral plain and then re-bind him to the abyss via a D’Orcing or similar ritual? Thus boosting him all the way up to fourth order or higher?

    Or maybe there is a super-secret, never been seen before, ‘demon boosting’ ritual? If the original demon body is created with magic and that body can, slowly, grow stronger. Would it be possible to somehow speed that process up in a big way?

    Demon steroids?


    Well we know it’s possible for demons to get more powerful over time and increase what order demon they are.



    Not sure that would work, here is why.

    When you demonize someone you have to kill off any bodies they have on the material plane.

    However, demons do not (usually) have a material body anywhere (unless they do what Antefalken did with the incubus) or what Beragamos did.

    Even so, their main body is their demon body and how do you kill that without permanently destroying the animus?


    Well, that’s the rather odd thing, they don’t really have material bodies anywhere, same with avatars.

    They form pseudo-bodies out of raw material when they go to material planes, and release them when they leave. That’s the fading in and out bit. (It’s also why they don’t really have organs, unless they think they do, or need them for dramatic purposes–remember how Edwyrd worried about eating in book 1)

    That’s one reason even small demons that don’t do magic, need a lot of mana to be created because that’s an intrinsic function.

    So technically when they go to the astral plane they simply release the material body and are pure mana bodied animus beings. When the get to the Abyss, they “materialize” a new body.

    So in this context, the fade in, fade out is literally materialization and dematerialization much like a Star Trek transporter.

    Now, when they open a portal to the Abyss (or from the Abyss) they are opening a hole between worlds and they are taking their “materialized” body between the worlds.

    Same is all true for avatars, except that on the Outer Planes, their bodies are refleca materializations, not material materializations if that makes any sense.

    Saints, are a bit different in that they still have a very real semi-material presence on the world of their origin. Which is why Hilda could enter Freehold, but Beragamos could not and had to incarnate a body.

    Incarnating a body is where the archon/demon literally creates a true body of a particular race. It is indistinguishable from a human/orc/elf, whatever. It is mortal, and thus Beragamos could feel the aches and pains of an old man.

    Demons typically do this via an incubus who creates a real baby for the other demon using the mother (succubus’s can do similar) this is a true mortal body, it will age and die.

    We are not told exactly what Beragamos did, but he created a real body somehow and aged it to appear like his default self, very quickly. So it was somehow different than using an avatarabus or whatever such a thing would be called. Or maybe he did and then he just did an aging spell. We are not told


    So how do demons get more powerful over time? Going from a second-order to a third-order as an example


    Same way as humans and other mortals.

    Practice, study, working out. It’s a matter of learning from one’s experiences and growing.

    Now, that being said, most demons have relatively few resources to aid in personal development then people living in more pleasant environments.

    However, they go not have an expiration date. So typically this is a process that takes hundreds, or thousands of years.

    Many demons don’t grow that much or at least fast enough that we can observe.

    But this is just like people. Some people get a job, a situation they like, that is comfortable and they “coast” with out advancing their careers or personal power.

    Then you have others that are driven to exceed and be the best, so they rise quickly.

    And of course, you then have people that start off pretty strong (like Tom) via accident of birth. I.e. be born to wealth & power, for them the ladder to success isn’t that long, unless they slip on it and fall…


    Wondering something: what if Beragamos needed to do something that couldn’t be done with the new mortal body that he had made for himself? Would he vaporize it and make another when he needed to or, would he just walk it into his walk-in freezer-closet and hang it up on a couple meat hooks until he was read to go back in it?


    Meat Freezer.

    Technically–any astral traveling wizard/mana users can have multiple bodies if they have a way of creating one.

    The other body appears to be asleep or in a trance when not occupied. It’s very much avatar or dual lives while dreaming.

    We don’t know for sure what he’s doing with his meat body when he is Tierhallon; he does not seem to be leaving it in Hilda’s hotel room. But you would want to put it somewhere safe, where mortal needs are met (food/water) My assumption is that he has a safe location, where he goes into a “guru” type trance where the body is in a form of suspended animation not requiring much food or water and astral travels.

    So it literally is a meat freezer.

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