warlocks

[Maou]

Could somebody be both a demon and a god?

[Tizzy]

:-“

[Finaltheorem47]

I suspect that Anilords, Demons and Gods are all a lot more similar than we believe.

Anilords were dreadful beings according to history but no one knows why. I kinda feel like Ramses the Anilord who is an archdemon isn’t too far out of Tom’s league. Tom is just considered a powerful “Animage” though to other humans… so my guess is the reason Anilords were so feared was because they were extremely hard to keep dead once you killed them (which would happen if they were no longer anchored to a corporeal body).

I suspect that Anilords are humans (or similar) who have “shed” their corporeal anchor and are essentially demons, except they didn’t need a wizard to bind them (aka turning them into demons), they were able to do it themselves.

Demons can be any individual, mostly made from “mundane” humans (large amount of class I’s), who have been “helped” along in the process of disconnecting their corporeal anchor and creating a mana body by a more powerful individual, usually a group. The groups and victims belief of what a demon looks like constructs their form. An Anilord believes he looks human or w/e species he was, so his corporeal body wouldn’t change like with a demon.

Gods are Anilords/Demons who have found a higher level through a combination of their own power and the influx of mana and belief from worshipers.

Then again the story goes that gods came first and created the universes, elves, dwarves etc. I’m not so sure to be honest though. If a gods power comes from worshipers, how did they create all the planes and universes which obviously had to be created before they created the first races of man (which is their power base). Me thinks the gods we see today aren’t as old as we make them out to be. :-” Maybe there is/was a [u]G[/u]od and then there are the [u]g[/u]ods. Maybe there are just [u]g[/u]ods and the different races of men as well as the different planes and universes evolved on their own.

[Maou]

I don’t personally believe that the god’s created anything. I have no idea what they are so I will throw out a new theory passed on your comment. Planes of men have all five elements with the element of man at its core. Therefore God’s could be Elementals of men. As sentient beings we have some influence over them as the element of man seems to be primarily composed of animus, conscience/sentience (higher conscience), spirit/soul(not sure if same or seperate). A god’s like it when people feel a single strong emotion as they recieve more mana this way. The element of man draws mana as do the gods and higher conscience beings refine mana. This would mean that the plane would form first and the gods shortly thereafter. They would have influence on the early world, but they would only happen to have been formed first.

I believe based on what was said in story that elemental exist, but people understand the element of man the least. If the gods were elementals of man, then it would stand to reason, as they would be the pinnacle of sentience, that they would try to keep those under their dominion from recognizing this. Man elementals must exist as do other elementals, but their are no true elemental plane of man. The closest to a plane of man would be the spiritual planes, thus each elemental would try to shape its own territory to expand their influence.

This however leads us with a small dilemma. If these elementals create these territories, they must have come from another place. THey would also likely have some clue to their origin in their territory to connect them with their origins as it were as elementals are most comfortable in their original domain. Simply put they come from the River Styx. It is in all spirtual planes and serves the purpose of transporting a person’s soul, and thus their animus to them. This is something purely of the element of man traveling without mana, so it must mean the the river is purely composed of the element of man. Nobody knows what the river truly is, but they know it isn’t water. The abyss could then serve as its mouth and the various elementals could then form various branches to this river.

The Styx would follow the properties of gathering attracting mana and other elements, and would explain why these location are so mysterious and why it is so hard to find these places. Not sure how Concordenax fits into things though. Regardless elementals of man will be intelligent, will likely be able to use magic, and will likely be a step above the other elementals in terms of power. They will likely range from highly rational, to highly emotional, or both. Regardless if Man elementals are the gods it should be that much of a shock.

[Tizzy]

Very interesting theories in the last few posts…

I am going to stay far away from you guys though…you seem to be holding blue lightning rods and just begging to get hit.

Particularly when you say the gods are “elementals” if that’s not a vaporizing event, then I don’t know what is.

I remember the Anilords very well, they were extremely high powered animages, Ramses and Exador were demons from the start posing as animages, many of the others were definitely human, at least early on. The lines got very blurry and I soon stopped worrying about who was what, I was more concerned with who was going to do me harm.

For some odd reason, many of the anilords disliked me. Since they were a bad bunch, really pretty Evil; I assume they hated me because I’m so virtuous, helpful and good.

The one that hated me most was this Necromancer (oddly enough, necromancers predate wizards–go figure–I guess they were using animagic to do necromancy.) Really nasty Necromancer, he had all these plots and kept trying to convince the Alvar to make him rings for some reason. Fortunately, the Alvaran lords were “smart” enough to see through his various disguises and never made any of the rings he wanted

He had pretended that he wanted them made to help the various races and had this plan for 3 for the Alvar, seven for the Modgriensofarthgonosefren, and nine for humans. Oddly, he didn’t want one for himself…which to me would have spelled altruism but anyway, I think the Alvar really were just pissed they were only going to get 3.

Sure, after the fact, when the Necromancer was finally sent packing and expelled from Astlan permanently by the first wizards, the Alvar claimed they saw through him all along, but I’m not sure.

[Maou]

So would elementals equate to
fire= beings of pure energy
air= gaseous energy beings
water= liquid energy beings
earth= solid energy beings
man= gods

with the element being named as the thing closest to the core concept that can be observed in nature as the truth of its pure most fundamental essence would escape man, but some of its properties could be understood.

I am a heretic. As are all demons as gods just don’t seem to like them for some reason.

[Tizzy]

Well…I really don’t know much about elementals.

I believe the sages over in the library (unless TAG forgot to post that section) say that there really aren’t elementals per se…it’s really weird, it’s more like there is an elemental impetus that somehow corresponds to the elementals. I.e. there aren’t “intelligent” elementals because that would require spirit or animus to create life, and thus would not be pure.

However, many philosophers and animages argue that while there is no elemental intelligence, there is a “force” or inherent nature in each of the elements. Fire is rage/destruction/cleansing rebirth for example. (See Astrology)

When you combine “spirit” the fifth element, with one of the other four, by some means, you would get an elemental.

This doesn’t happen in nature, normally.

However, the highest/greatest Animasters can transmute their physical/planes of men form into a single element as an “elemental body” Basically it’s a physical body on the Planes of Men composed of a single element and the consciousness of the Animage.

This is what Maelen refers to as a “Living Elemental” on the boat, when Tom flames up to attack the Oorstemothians.

Elementals, so to speak aren’t alive, they aren’t sentient. Only when combined with spirit do you get an elemental being. I.e. “A Living Elemental”

[Maou]

What would happen if Tom where to use and elemental form of all four elements at the same time?

[Tizzy]

Hmm

That would probably be a question for Maelen.

However, I don’t think that would be possible, the elemental “tides” if you will, would pull you apart.

For example, wizards don’t usually combine more than two elements at a time in a given adhoc spell, typically sympathetic elements.

When they do need to use multiple elements, those are typically larger rituals involving pentacles and runes and braziers and stuff. I.e. they’ve got a lot of moving parts and they take precaution to blend things carefully.

The vast majority of Elementalists (animages) only specialize in one element. Yes they may do the others, but specialization is usually a single element.

Trying to do all four would require tremendous skill and will power.

Also remember Tom is sort of cheating. he’s a demon, demons have a natural affinity for fire (OK—yes you got me Ice demons are an exception, or so they would seem, but they are really just the inverse of fire, e.g. cold fire as we call it–the ice is a by-product created by freezing moisture out of the air)

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