ETA: Next book

[Flakes]

I think you are over personalizing things. When you say “no one wants” you are basically talking about yourself and maybe a few of your friends. You have no other frames of reference than that.

While I have no interest in watching re-runs of “Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood” or “learning valuable life lessons” I am interested in good characters and interesting plot twists. I suppose it is the difference between being a mature reader and an immature one.

[whomightub3]

A mature reader reads more than the first sentence before making a personal attack.

A mature reader doesn’t take things too personal.

A mature reader doesn’t sit like a hawk poised to strike on internet forums trying to start silly internet fights.

See how I didn’t even notice your reply for three days?

I’m separating these sentences out so they are easier to read, I know you need help with that.

Get a freaking hobby, you internet hobo.

[Korwin]

wtf
How was Hilda’s part redundant?

and who is taking it to personal?

Ah, Forum as an ignore function…

[Rosver]

@Flakes
[quote]What was the problem with Hilda. She was the best part of book 2. She was book 2’s Tom.[/quote]
The problem is, at least for me, is that she has very minor role. Not to mention, she sucks in her role.
And she is far from the best part of the book. That recognition goes to Tom.
[quote]All too often in self published books you get some uber main character who is over powered, who just breezes through the plot with deus ex machina saves and shallow secondary characters.[/quote]
And most are just boring, stupid, badly edited, or just plain crap.
[quote]Making it not entirely about Tom lessens this. So while some of the other sections are boring as fuck, they are still worthwhile.[/quote]
But Hilda is almost the same. As a saint, she is OP. She breezes through the plot with her saintly powers, many which just pop up (deus ex machina), and she is surrounded by shallow secondary characters.

@The Author Guy
[quote]Not sure what someone thought was wrong with Hilda.[/quote]
Well, for me, I have two problems about her. One, she has a very small role. So small that I think she fits more as a minor character than a main one. The second is that her scenes are filled with obnoxious details, especially the wines and food. Almost all of her scene includes her babbling about wines. It was interesting the first time, but it gets old and annoying very quick.
[quote]I think the biggest thing that (secretly) annoyed people was that it wasn’t what they were expecting. And that ticked people off.[/quote]
That is not exactly it. Heavenly Host is really just not good and I kinda expect it to be good.
[quote]If one has read this all before, then what’s the point of writing it again?[/quote]
Why not?
[quote]That was my big thought when I was starting this, most fantasy books became like sitcoms, you only need to look at the title, read the blurb and a few chapters and you know where it’s going.[/quote]
Predictability is not a problem. For example, I love Into the Abyss and I read again and again and again.Its already predictable because of my constant re-reading. I know it inside out but I read it again. Why?
Another would be the Romance genre. Everyone knows how it goes. Then, why is it one of the most profitable of all the genre? Why is the most predictable of all type of stories have the most audience?
Triteness is the problem of these copycats. Instead of creating they own twist and touch, they instead do a very halfhearted and lazy rehash of the original.
[quote]And my hope is that some of the more boring parts will start to pay off in later volumes. There are some long setup times…but I don’t like things just pulled out of thin air to solve a problem ‘deus ex machina’ style so I have a lot of setup to explain what happens later, some of that, I admit can be less exciting.[/quote]
The second book essentially bridges the first book to the third book. Instead of telling a story, you are setting things up for the next story. My review is quite spot on. Your enticing us in the first book and you go all out in the third book, but the second book is virtually nothing. It is just a setup, a bridge.

@Korwin
[quote]How was Hilda’s part redundant?[/quote]
Most of her scenes where she goes info hunting is not really needed (and she is bad at it). Also, so far, she is still not indespensable. She can still be removed in the narrative and the story can still work.

[Korwin]

[quote=Rosver;3229]
@Korwin
[quote]How was Hilda’s part redundant?[/quote]
Most of her scenes where she goes info hunting is not really needed (and she is bad at it). Also, so far, she is still not indespensable. She can still be removed in the narrative and the story can still work.[/quote]
Can’t agree here, half the book was about the reactions to the battle at the end of Into the Abyss (and yes, I liked to see those reactions. Was enjoying the gloating I did for Tom since he could’nt because not getting Intel about it).

She might not be perfect at Intel gathering, but she’s the best the FoL have.
And you can’t really blame her, she is learning by doing.
It’s not like she has an internship in an spy agency or has an extensive reading habit of spy novels.

By and large I don’t understand your dislike.
Yes it was’nt a second ‘Into the Abyss’, but we (at least I) would’nt want a carbon copy of Into the Abyss.

While I liked the new Star Wars film, while watching. It left an not quite bad or good aftertaste.
Hopefully the next one isn’t an carbon copy of ‘The Empire Strikes back’.

Going back to the Topic, without Hilda the book would have been poorer. We got an good introduction to the FoL faction.
Shure there where others from the FoL there, but without Hilda we would have gooten an very negative impression. Much more balanced this way.

I also get the Impression, that if TAG say’s something is needed as an build up for the next book, you are dismissing it as an irrelevant argument, without merrit?

[Rosver]

[quote]Can’t agree here, half the book was about the reactions to the battle at the end of Into the Abyss (and yes, I liked to see those reactions. Was enjoying the gloating I did for Tom since he could’nt because not getting Intel about it)[/quote]

I’m talking about Hilda’s info gathering, not the reactions.

[quote]She might not be perfect at Intel gathering, but she’s the best the FoL have.
And you can’t really blame her, she is learning by doing.
It’s not like she has an internship in an spy agency or has an extensive reading habit of spy novels.[/quote]

It is not because she is bad at it. It’s because those scenes are not necessary, thus redundant. She just practically rehashes those when she reports in the meetings.

[quote]By and large I don’t understand your dislike.
Yes it was’nt a second ‘Into the Abyss’, but we (at least I) would’nt want a carbon copy of Into the Abyss.[/quote]

And, I don’t understand your like.

Yes it was’nt a second ‘Into the Abyss’, but we (at least I) want a proper continuation of the first book, not a hudred pages bridge or setup.

[quote]While I liked the new Star Wars film, while watching. It left an not quite bad or good aftertaste.
Hopefully the next one isn’t an carbon copy of ‘The Empire Strikes back’.[/quote]

At least a proper movie and a proper sequel. It is not a bridge or setup for the next movie.

[quote]Going back to the Topic, without Hilda the book would have been poorer. We got an good introduction to the FoL faction.
Shure there where others from the FoL there, but without Hilda we would have gooten an very negative impression. Much more balanced this way.[/quote]

Yes, Hilda makes it less poor, but it still poor nonetheless. As for the impression, it only reflects on Hilda, not on the FoL as a whole.

See it this way, the Nazi would have some good members in its ranks, good people with good heart, in fact, there are; but would those members ‘balance’ the view on Nazis? Not at all. The action and trait of an individual reflect only on the individual, not the group.

[quote]I also get the Impression, that if TAG say’s something is needed as an build up for the next book, you are dismissing it as an irrelevant argument, without merrit?[/quote]

I have three things to say for this:

1) I’m not dismissing it. The biggest problem I have with all these setups is that there is no clear indication for what they are setting up for. Example, there is this scene where Hilda fights the beggars. It might fun and interesting, but what is its connection to everything else? Are the Beggars going to the Abyss and fight demons? Will the Beggars become Tom alies? Maybe the Beggars would become saints too. Uhh! I don’t know!

Another is this scene (which is present only in beta) where we practically have pages worth of nothing but Jenn and Gastrope having a rollercoaster ride. I don’t understand how this rollercoaster is a setup for anything. Any ideas? And there are similar scenes like these.

2) The argument that these stuff are boring is valid. In fact a large part of the book is boring. Say what you want about this, but a boring book is still a boring book no matter how “needed” the setups are.

3) Three, and the most important point: Heavenly Host is just setting things up for the next story instead of telling a story. In fact, you could say, it has no story at all. Lots of things are happening but they are so disconnected that they might as well be in different books. And the worst thing? It takes hundreds of pages for all of this setup crap. The setup is far bigger than the first book. What the hell.

[Author]

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