2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1892KorwinMember
So Dragons are harder to perma kill than demons.
Are Dragons made the same way, demons are?
Are they summonable/bindable?2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1894
Yep, the Astral plane is fine for animus bodies….I mean technically the animus has some mana attached to it, holding it together…I suppose…but there is no matter on the astral plane, so no friction….
In the Abyss, you would think Animus would dissolve even quicker than on the Planes of Men. Doesn’t seem to happen. At least not to demons.
Demons regenerate very fast in the Abyss, as do humans–if they are in a more temperate region without a lot of acid in the air–this is one reason they can be tormented there for a very long time. Certainly this is true when they are brought bodily into the Abyss. Presumably a soul snatching demon would have to create them a body for the Abyss—so they can torture it
The same is true about the Planes of the Gods, although usually if you can get onto the god’s plane via the official channels (e.g. after death) a heavenly body gets created for you
I would have to say it’s part of the mystery of the Abyss…it’s a very weird place and doesn’t quite fit in well with the regular multiverse scheme.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1895
The planes of men are supposedly where all five elements are in balance. It then mentioned the elemental planes, but I never heard of a true plane of man. The astral plane is a plane of energy so it could just be the elements mixing together, but lacking any materialization of individual aspects and just acts as the primordial plane of chaos from which order arose that you often hear of in most mythos. That leaves us lacking an elemental plane of man, and since they are so the element is so little understood the abyss could be a natural plane of men and the divine realms could be imitations of it. It was mentioned that the Abyss was a plane on a near infinite scale, but no natural plane is normally that large, except the elemental planes, which are all listed in singular so far as in one plane of fire, water, air, and earth.
This is all mere conjecture at this point. The abyss could simply be a breeding grounds for invisible super rabbits, or a realm meant to hold an Eldritch Abomination beyond mortal comprehension. Remember nothing is truly valid until the ancient, and not senile, stoned, schizophrenic demon confirms thing over a pipe.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1896
Actually your word choices are interesting, particularly if you pay attention to how the wizards use those phrases.
There are the “Planes of Men” which are all the various alternate realities of the physical world, the conflux of the 5 Elemental planes.
The elemental planes are: Fire, Earth, Water, Air, Spirit
In wizard speak, they often refer to the manifestation of “Spirit” in the planes of men as “the Element of Man” etc.
It’s basically the way the the elemental plane of “fire” (or any of the others) aren’t really just fire…they are also lightning and plasma and all sorts of things. Fire the stuff that burns wood, chars flesh etc. Is just the “manifestation” of the raw element of fire on the planes of men.
Same for the various forms of “Air” Oxygen, Nitrogen, Carbon Dioxide; and “Water” water, acid, blood, wine, vodka and “Earth” dirt, marble, granite, quartz.
So you will see wizards talk about the Element of Man, but what they real mean is a significant concentration of Spirit manifesting on the material plane as to engender sentience…
To be honest, they’re sort of winging it on this front, but it works for them.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1897
Sorry let me clarify what I meant. The five elements have individual elemental planes, but the element of spirit is often expressed as animus or sentience, so it a plane made from spirit would likely have sentience or strongly support it. I merely expressed the thought that the abyss was a natural plane of spirit as sentient beings are very hard to kill in the abyss and recover at improved rates. It is also easy to bring animus or spirits into the abyss and very difficult to bring other elements into it. I don’t know what the other elemental planes look like so this is all conjecture. The abyss is weird and spirit is the only element that I can think of that might actively try to bring others to itself through pure willpower. For all intents in purposes a plane of spirit could simply be a collection of sentient thoughts originally. Most sentient beings prefer to have a body to protect their spirit, hence they might over time create a new plane for themselves. This intelligence could then craft the realm so that they might interact with those planes around them. Spirit is weird and I have know idea how it would look, but each plane of spirit could act differently as they might possess sentience and would make them harder to recognize than other elemental planes that would act on set rules.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1898
Sorry just realized I forgot to respond to this. Something seems broken (to me) with the Active Posts and is making it harder for me to follow newer posts.
I actually saw it, read it and didn’t get back to it.
Interesting hypothesis. So if I am following you…you are saying that the Abyss is a “projection of the spirit plane” possibly reflected upon the other elements…hmm…I have to think about this…it would make some sense of some weirdness….2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1899
Any spirit plane is bound to have some sentience, and sentience leads to divergence over time. The spiritual planes would be the hardest to recognize and the afterlife is often seen as a spiritual plane. Angels are often seen as similar to demons by heretics it stands to reason that both are spiritual beings to some extent as both tie into religion. A plane of spirit could look like anything and might shift with perception. The abyss is a natural plane as nothing maintains it and it has the Styx. The river which all must pass over to reach the afterlife. As the river of souls it could possibly have some connection to plane of spirits. It is the only thing I know of present in all afterlives in story that all must pass to move on to their believed afterlife. It is also very strange and should be questioned for appearing in all afterlives in spite of the fact that nobody has knowledge of its origins. If nobody created it then it must be natural, and therefore it must be a reflection of one of the elements. Elements are the only things that are reflected in multiple realities regardless of origin and the river shows up in as a bridge to the afterlife, so a connection to spirits as it draws them to itself. I would say more, but this is all pure speculation, so saying that the Styx is an indicator to a spiritual plane is pure speculation. The Styx is however a strange river or whatever it is. Regardless I don’t recommend drinking or swimming in the river as anything referred to as the river of the dead is likely something you don’t want to come into contact with. It’s also okay in the abyss. Again, spiritual planes have to exist, but will be influenced by perception and hard to recognize. My thought was the Abyss was Astlan’s spiritual plane and the afterlives of the god’s where merely alternate perceptions or reflections of the spirit by the people.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1900
Of course, what are the planes of the gods if not spirit planes? That’s where all the dead souls go…generally…unless they are reincarnated or a god is doing something funky.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1901castleguardMember
could be more of a Yin Yang kind of thing. The abyss would simply be the negative aspect of the spirit realm balancing out all of the spirit realms with positive aspects.
back to the killing demons post though. I was just wondering if a demon follows a religion does that allow them to go to an after life when they die?2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1903castleguardMember
Are you sure there souls aren’t simply absorbed and trapped by the river stix? It could be the river is made of souls. Or do you have information about the river that would make you think otherwise?2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1904
That’s an interesting theory!
Hmm, that would explain some of the freakiness about that river….
I’m going to need a volunteer to test this theory with.
Anyone?2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1905
I volunteer DevilHeart77, as intelligent as he is, he will be able to make a few observations before being crushed. Out of curiosity in many works necromancers have some form of soul meld spell. It is very simple and forces two different souls to merge as one, normally resulting in insanity. What would happen if used on two demons, demons are often viewed as insane by mortals, but often with various forms of insanity. I ask because if the river is some form group conscious it will not be doing much as most of those people will think of themselves as powerless and damned.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1906
You are really starting to make me rethink crossing that river.
It gets creepier every time you guys post…
I think I’ll stick to flying way WAY above it.
Haven’t heard much from DevilHeart77 about volunteering. I wonder if his buddy Nick could get his soul of the Styx…
I think it seems like a really good experiment.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1907RosverMember
The theories here are getting weirder and weirder.
Soul being absorbed by the river sounds very much like the ‘Gia’ stuff in that Final Fantasy CG Film. Well, if there are souls in the river couldn’t mage/wizard/demon sight see them? Wizards seems to be able to see souls. Also shouldn’t mana be still attached to the soul or something?
Never heard of soul meld spell. Wonder if necromancers of Astlan could do it. Still quite impractical a spell if you ask me.2020-06-02 at 15:20 #1908
The spell is most often used between a soul entities such as a lich. When a lich encounters a lich or other undead creature that has managed to overcome death like a possessor that moves from host to host this spell is used to make them effectively insane and useless. It is alot easier to render somebody else a non-threat in person than it is to find where ever their phylactery, that would be guarded. Also not all methods of soul preservation would be the same so if you encountered something similar it could take a long time to figure out how it animates and maintains itself. The simple solution is to just to neutralize the threat as opposed to its life. The purpose of a soul meld simplified, its to kill others like you for self preservation=d> .
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