The summoning of Tom
2019-01-05 at 04:01 #9570
I think the operative point has been, Lenamare is uncertain himself.
They bring this up in book 2. Lenamare (and others) seem to have the sneaking suspicion that he’s been played by someone greater than a type IV.
In fact, this is a question that is key to a lot of ruminations in Book 4.
As more and more people realize that this greater demon is actually a demon prince, Orcus. (and Lenamare doesn’t know this yet) they feel that Orcus had some plot that required Lenamare to do what he did (OK, so this is actually where Maelen is going in his thoughts). He needed to be brought into the frey this way.
Lenamare has similar suspicions, just not that it’s Orcus. The general consensus in Freehold is that “Lenamare’s Demon” is possibly more than a type IV (given what he did with the mana streams etc). Given they knew there were archdemons, I am pretty sure they are all paranoid that “Lenamare’s Demon” was at least an archdemon if not more.
This is why, quite frankly, Lenamare is rather paranoid to even touch Tom again. He doesn’t know if he’s been played.
This is a major plot point going forward.
So I think, Lenamare, even though he would never admit it. Is not YET, willing to even try his luck.
T-A-G2019-04-05 at 04:04 #9571
And to be clear, no wizard in their right mind would even ever think of dealing with an arch-demon.
So if Tom is an arch-demon. Any sane wizard would stay away. (OK, then there is Vaselle…)
T-A0G2020-06-02 at 15:18 #16432020-06-02 at 15:25 #9569
Given how long it has been (figuratively speaking), since Tom was summoned by Lenaare. Is it possible that given all that has happened with Tom, that Lenamare would not be able to command Tom/Orcus to do his bidding? I am wondering if it is like with God (our world), that in order to be able to summon and command him, you would need all his True Names. Tom seems to be gathering True Names, and titles like a magpie gathers shiny items.2020-06-02 at 15:25 #9572GelcubeMember
You know, it’s nice to know that Lenny’s ego has SOME limits. I was beginning to think the man thought he was a god.2020-06-02 at 15:25 #9573
Well, he is interested in researchings gods….remember the telemetry device he gave Jenn to carry with her in the event she meets a god.
He’s designed it to be as god-proof/indestructible as possible and give him measurements a god’s powers etc.
Maybe he has plans to self-ascend himself?2020-06-02 at 15:25 #9574GelcubeMember
Oh Lordy, that’s ALL we need. ](*,)2020-06-02 at 15:25 #9575
I am sure he’d be just as pleasant on the Council of Gods as he is on the Council of Wizardry.2020-06-02 at 15:25 #9576KorwinMember
[quote=Lunarmage;7587]Given how long it has been (figuratively speaking), since Tom was summoned by Lenaare. Is it possible that given all that has happened with Tom, that Lenamare would not be able to command Tom/Orcus to do his bidding? I am wondering if it is like with God (our world), that in order to be able to summon and command him, you would need all his True Names. Tom seems to be gathering True Names, and titles like a magpie gathers shiny items. [/quote]
I suspect the difficulty of summoning Tom would not lie in his true name,
but the power boost he got after he got the Wand of Orcus/Rod of Tommus and Mount Doom (and surfacing memories of Orcus).2020-06-02 at 15:25 #9577
Yeah, getting zapped by raw [i][b][color=red]FIRE[/color][/b][/i] channeled through the Wand might hurt.2020-06-02 at 15:25 #9578
Actually, that’s why you just don’t generally summon any big demons, archdemons, princes.
Even if you think you have a spell that “might” hold them. They have so many tricks up their sleeves, they are always going to have a way to get around whatever you have prepared.
I think one key way of thinking of this is that they are all thousands if not hundreds of thousands or millions of years old and pretty much know every trick in the book.
A very old alvaran conjuror with a ton of experience would probably have the best luck against an archdemon, but would still be out matched by a demon prince.2020-06-02 at 15:25 #9579Christopher CopeMember
[size=6]Yeah, I think it would have to more be about the amount of power said demon has than just his true name. Think about it, technically couldn’t the council get together, summon and bind Exador, and then shove him into a stasis trap since they know his name? Even so I doubt they would with the danger involved. And for that matter, couldn’t saints technically be summoned and bound too? Or does their access to their god’s pool make that much more difficult?[/size]2020-06-02 at 15:25 #9580
The first problem is the name, you have to know the true name.
The ring didn’t work for Jenn because they had gotten Tom’s true/full name wrong on the engraving.
Exador is the name that Exador goes by, but it would not be his true name. That was lost a few thousand years back after he slew the last of his masters.
So, that would not work for the Council.
However, something like that is what the council wants to do. They can’t summon him, but if he shows up of his own free will, they are going to try and trap him somehow. This is what Randalf has been working most of his life on. He now has Lenamare’s help.
The second problem is then the power. And for wizards, it’s not shear power of the wizard, it’s how much power is packed in the spells and rune magic etc that are used to bind the demons. There are different spells (and runes/pentacles) for different levels of demons, both to summon them/compel them and keep them from killing you. The more powerful the demon, the more powerful the spell, the more mana it takes, the more complicated it is, the harder to do correctly. Hence you have to be really good/experienced for big demons.
This is a key difference between Wizard Conjurors and Animage Summoners. The wizards use spells, which are recipes, along with pentacles and runes imbued with mana as tools to control demons. You need strong enough tools, magical steel bars the demon can’t break, etc. Animage Summoners however are more dynamic and create chains/bars/containment out of their imagination/will/practice/skill. There, it basically comes down to pure skill and raw power, whereas for wizards, the skill is in correctly executing the spell/creating the runes, not so much the actual summoning or binding.
Wizards have their spells and tools, they don’t have to be as powerful as the demon they summon, just skilled and powerful enough to cast the spells/enchant the runes. An animage needs to be at least as strong and skilled as whoever they are summoning.
This is why very few animage summoners summon demons (they mainly summon animals and spirits and such). If they do summon demons, they usually don’t do much more than fiends. It’s very dangerous.
Now as far as avatars:
Yes, you can summon them, and there are actual rituals that can be used by some priests in some religions to do exactly that. They are generally, however, not demanding, but supplicating. This in a sense what Teragdor did.
However, it is possible to do more compelling summonings. In theory if you know the true name of an avatar (and that may not be their Saint name) you could use an appropriate demon summoning/binding on them.
The trick here, as you identified, and what makes it dangerous is that unlike a demon of the same “level” avatars have direct access to their deity’s god pool.
A demon only has their own mana, avatars can (usually and to various amounts based on role/deity/rules) use their god’s power and blow the crap out of whoever has such temerity as to summon them.
So, in general, even with a compelling binding of an avatar, you probably want to be friendly with the god and doing it for the god’s purposes or you are going to be toast. And even then, the avatar might help you do the god’s work, and then take vengeance or cause problems.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.