Sammael’s minions

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    In the Lesteroth scene they are surrounded, he let’s those who wish to go, go.

    They then, [i]off camera[/i], have a quick swearing in and Tom creates bindings and then they all just file down tunnels into Mount Doom, the same tunnels the D’Orcs came out of. This is basically implied in retrospect and conversations.

    Is the reference to the four lands from a book I haven’t read?

    “If I had to, I could, for example, get by in the Four Lands.”
    Said by ragala-nargoloth

    It’s a reference to a series of books that I would suspect you’ve read. Unless you are really lucky. [biggrin] It’s also a TV series on MTV.

    Actually some of them are quite good, others are slightly hacky money making retreads. The Four Lands are where the Shannara books take place.

    While not obvious until much later, it’s a post-magic returned Earth.

    The Demi-Urge doesn’t hang out much in Astlan, so he doesn’t mess with them too much.

    Sammael delegates far better than Lilith, who is a control freak. He trusts his lieutenants to carry out their duty with very little supervision. They know what is expected and know the price of failure. He is, after all, THE DEVIL. Tizzy claims that Sam’s biggest problem with Lilith is that she’s a control freak and that drives him nuts. She’s also mercurial and unpredictable, vengeful, manipulative. I.e. a typical Ex.


    What’s up with that


    Finally finished a crappy dark high fantasy book *shudder* and am finally getting around to reading the new beta. This post will just be my duping ground for thoughts I have.

    My immediate one, being as Sam has the first chapter of the book, where are his minions man! Sam’s supposed to have all sorts of power and lilith is his consort! Has he ever talked to them where the reader can see ’em?

    Also does he manipulate any humans in astlan and it’s localverse to fight the God?

    Oh guess he’s shut off from that local verse.


    So in lesteroth’s pov in chap 1 the D’Orcs surround them. Do they push them into the mountain? Because Tom says he will open a chamber but they are standing out in the open?

    Is the reference to the four lands from a book I haven’t read?

    “If I had to, I could, for example, get by in the Four Lands.”
    Said by ragala-nargoloth


    Have not read those books but mtv *ugh*

    Googled four lands but just wasn’t sure. Ok. Should I read them?

    “My warriors will open a corridor behind you. You have my word that if you enter that corridor, you may return to Lilith and report your failure,” the demon lord stated”

    How can Tom’s peeps open a corridor when they are standing out in the open?

    Ok so then right before the swearing in Tom goes to astlan here:

    He had checked on Vaselle and the rest of his people in Astlan shortly before swearing in the new recruits and shown them the balling of the battle over their campfire. They were camping outside of Murgatroy to avoid having to stable Schwarzenfürze in the wargtown and cause further problems.

    But in this scene:

    Edwyrd shrugged. “Sounds good—wait.” Edwyrd glanced to the crystal ball. Would it be possible for me to borrow your ball for a few hours? I would like to show everyone who missed the battle what happened.”

    Tom/Edwyrd asks to show them the bailing again.

    Would it make more sense to have this bit be Edwyrd returning the balling he had borrowed before?


    “My warriors will open a corridor behind you. You have my word that if you enter that corridor, you may return to Lilith and report your failure,” the demon lord stated”

    How can Tom’s peeps open a corridor when they are standing out in the open?

    I took it to mean a corridor in the troops, i.e., they were surrounded by D’Orcs so they could not flee. Tom had some of the D’Orcs move aside so those that wanted to could leave.


    Yes, that is what I meant.

    There are other tunnels that they all came out of, i.e. how the D’Orcs got out through the gates on the side of the mountain.


    Alrighty I was just remembering the scene from one of the betas for HH. The army went into mount doom and he had a similar speed but for the demons to leave he opened a exit.

    Will continue when I get to later scenes then.


    I think I’m missing something.

    What speed?

    There are various tunnels in/out of Doom that are guarded by D’Orc guards and always were. The mines were a back door that they no longer guarded because the hydra hounds were in that part of the tunnel system, so they relied on them and natural obstacles within that labyrinth.

    In order for the D’Orcs to get out and surround the demons, they went out through those tunnels/gates. After swearing the demons in, they all went back in through the same tunnels/entrances.


    Auto correct lol ment scene.

    Anyways something that came up, but was never mentioned again was the scene after zargvarst had his whole spiel in with trevin in the orc camp, he mentioned lilith’s army losing and deserting to Lord Tommus.

    In the scene after where the nimbus people discuss what happened, they don’t talk about the queen of the abyss losing a demon army to Lord Tommus. The only people who knew about it were Gastrope and jenn, but trevin or elrose or maelen all did not.

    Chapter 141 nimbus tea



    I think they were more focused on the issues at hands, rather than unverifiable claims of Zargvarst. But it should be brought up again as their mission continues, and in particular it will come up with Jenn as she puts two and two together.

    Ideally, I’d have mentioned it there in passing, but it doesn’t completely move the plot forward so I am thinking at this point to bring it up in hind sight as in something they need to consider but did not immediately and what stock to put into it.

    In fact, it should have come up in subsequent discussions that we haven’t been privy to, there were a number of days of down time since the spiel that we did not hear their discussions. So, I think I’ll bring it up again in 4 and say, “as you recall, I was not concerned about things that can’t be verified.” “well, now we need to consider it because…”

    And that will come up because they will be arriving at the Astlan Doom about the time it goes live and the risar come marching out of it…

    “Hey bergrisi! don’t let the Nimbus hit you on the head!”


    Why did I just gasp with anticipation when I read that? Giddy, that’s the feeling.


    Yep, there were once risar residing in Astlan.

    That’s who built all those big buildings on the south east coast of Norelon.

    Nowadays, they just got midget giants, measly 60 foot tall ones, Ok some get as high as eighty, but most are 50 to 70 feet tall. Certainly no 200 foot tall ones.

    Then there are the micro-giants at 20 to 30 feet.

    Ogres and Ettins tend to be only 15 to 30 feet tall.

    I love talking with Ettins as they tend to have conflicting view points and I love to get the two heads into an argument! It’s really fun to watch one konk the other on the head with a club and see them both wince in pain!


    Does that make me naughty?


    Could a god create a saint and send them into a different outer plane?

    What I’m getting at is demons are kinda ‘evil’ saints without the God.

    And wizard’s create ‘evil saints’ when first conjuring a demon.
    And they send the new demon to a kinda outer plane, The Abyss, which has no God owning it. That we know of.

    Which now that I think of thinking of it the abyss couldn’t be an outer plane because it’s 2 planes below astlan let alone the other outer planes.

    Kind of rambling sorry lol.


    >Kind of rambling?

    Did not notice, sounded completely normal to me…

    A god creating a saint would plop them onto one of their own outer planes simply from a security/access point of view. Usually these planes are shielded to prevent intrusion by outsiders. Note that Tom sneaked into Tierhallon riding on an avatar connection.

    That being said, avatars are just immortals, they can change allegiance between gods and even pantheons once they are an avatar (including saints) Or they can “fall” into the Abyss, and not be affiliated with any god. We will see this in book 4.

    This is the story that Sammael uses as his origin and that Hesselforthalous “steals/borrows” when he pretends to be Salvatore. He’s a fallen angel, now living in the Abyss. Also note that Salvatore is Italian and literally means “Savior” as in a reference to Jesus. He’s messing with Sammael (who’s schtick is being “the devil” and the adversary=satan of the Demi Urge, a.k.a. the “God of the Burning Bush” in the old testament)

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