Future books?

[Maou]

If humans can be torture for centuries in the abyss it must be better for their health than i thought. I always assumed that heat, constant terror, torture, and lack of food would lead to death.
Also was the 21st school of the animage mind control, if so then is it similar to possession, extreme persuasion, or is it kinda like these are not the fugitives you are looking for, with a hand wave and an apology for disruption to innocent travelers?

[whomightub3]

I was under the impression that the 21st was possession, since the mind reading/control was a public given for just being an Animage . It would make sense if the Animages didn’t want anyone to know about it, it would have to be something that would force the few people who don’t want them dead, for just existing, to rise up and crush them. That and the demons don’t seem to have any species specific abilities/spells, just what’s forced upon them or learned over time.

[Tizzy]

It can be used for possession like things and possibly true possession, but also a lot of other things, triggers, compulsions and memory alteration etc.

Think of some of the nastiest things that either a bad Deryni might do (See Katherine Kurtz) or the sort of mental manipulation that Jack Chalker might do to people.

But again, like the 21st Discipline, those authors are just writing fiction. Doesn’t really exist. And if you ever found out that it existed, you would shortly forget that it existed and realize that it could never have existed and that you’d just been joking around trying to scare people.

[castleguard]

So the 21st doesn’t exist……. Unless umm ya thats it I have done it. The answer is ….. umm what was I saying oh ya so the 21st doesn’t exist.

On to something more important. As to returning to earth I think it is possible. I just don’t know if it is possible to do it as a demon. But if a demon where to be reborn as a human than just maybe they could return. One of my current theories is that Tom has indeed already returned to Earth as the human Tom. And has just recently returned to Astlan. This would explain his rapid progression and development as a demon as it wouldn’t be his first time. Also it would allow for him to be much more then just the sum of his 16 years recently spent on Earth.

[Tizzy]

Of course, you know that deities tend to have a lock on reincarnation…

So that means that a deity still operating on Earth would have to be involved, at least as a co-conspirator…

Actually, I’ll have to check on that…I know clerics have a “forced” reincarnation spell. Not sure if the wizards have figured that out.

If they have…then it might not take a deity…although how a wizard would have the power to make a reincarnation work on Earth is not clear…the deity answer would be more plausible.

[castleguard]

So basically getting it to work on Earth is the problem. Would a priest be able to force reincarnation the other way though. From Earth to Astlan?

Also do priests have access to the super refined mana from their deities or do they only get the less refined stuff that Tom was able to use in the last fight in the first book? I am thinking that if they do have access to the good stuff for there more powerful spells then maybe that’s how they are able to do some things that wizards can’t. Such as forced reincarnation.

[Tizzy]

There are probably a couple issues with reincarnating someone from Earth.

1) Knowing that they exist, who to reincarnate
2) Knowing their true name or having part of their body
3) What system were they using for their afterlife? If they dissipated, then there isn’t much you can do. And if they went somewhere guarded by some deity who allows no other deities before themselves…it might be hard prying them out of that deities grasp.
4) On the other hand, grabbing a Buddhist or similar might be possible…IF you can catch them between reincarnations…and there’s the rub, if they are currently incarnated you have to get them out of their body and onto the Astral plane….

As a rule, most clerics don’t have direct access, they go through an avatar to whom they are dedicated, and who has access. And in fact that avatar may go through another avatar. It sort of depends on how important you are, how important the avatar you are talking to is, and what you are doing.

Think of it as a “resources” approval process. Different levels of clerics are authorized to use so much god mana (beyond their own local supply) which in all likelihood is not from the GP but from their avatar. That avatar has so much mana he/she can give out, personally, and they can pull up to a certain amount out of the GP (think of it like a mana budget) Higher up avatars have bigger budgets/can approve more mana usage.

This actually is discussed in book II, particularly in regard to Saint Hilda of Rivenrock.

As an FYI the priests that feed her mana, and which she returns mana to are called her Illuminaries (because they light her up) in turn she is an Illuminary to an even higher up Archon.

And I would point out that most priests can swap between multiple Illuminaries, it depends on who they prey to, who they have established relationships to. For example, they can call on different saints for different situations, or different angels for different situations. They have their default “Patron” saint (some of whom are actually angels–think how the Seraphim have “Saint” analogues in Christianity)

Typically, most priests would use a Saint or other avatar’s assistance to do a reincarnation. In theory, depending on the religion, a high priest or “future” saint, might be able to do it on their own. Remember it takes verified “miracles” basically done on their own to get a person canonized.

Think of Canonization as being something like a religious version of Demon Binding, only it’s creating an Avatar (or Saint) out of a human spirit that has exited the body.

[Maou]

What would happen if somebody tried to use canonization on a demon in mortal form. Would they end up as a demonic saint, saint, demon, or have something else happen?

[Tizzy]

I doubt it would work, as it requires the consent of the deity (or avatar)…as do most of the more powerful clerical rituals.

And the person has to be dead and not have a body, demons have bodies (sort of)

I suppose it could be possible for an evil deity to want to get demon avatars…but I’m not sure that they’d need to do canonization, they could presumably do something else to link them up to the GP and the “system” since Demons and Angels are very similar constructs.

In fact, in many pantheons, demons are just rogue angels that have broken away from the deity….

So, not being a priest, and having never been attached to a deity, I can’t say, but presumably some of the canonization spells involve forming the link to the godpool and the deity network. You’d do those rituals, but wouldn’t do the incarnation rituals that create the “body” as the “body” already exists.

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