First impressions and initial thoughts….so far
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I think in part the problem is that we really don’t have any idea of where we are going. What is the point of this?
Are we just here to watch Tom grow? Watch him secure Mt. Doom? Become a power in the Multi-verse.
There is a growing conflict with the different parties, the heavens, the mages, the various nations, the Abyss, Tartar Sauce (my spelling check changed Tartarus to tartar sauce I thought it was funny so I left it.) But we really don’t know where it is headed, what is the point. It is obviously not between good and evil, rather politically ambivalent and politically ambivalent with an propagandist of FOG vs FOE.
Or is it about getting access to “The Book”
I think that you might take the view that you are setting up your pieces on a chess board and that they are moving in position and getting ready to strike in the next book.
[quote=The Author Guy;3922]Excellent questions, very helpful. I am going to need to think on this to provide some better detail, both for you and myself.
[/quote]When you do give the information what conflicts you wanted could you also give the synopsis for the book? In addition to providing feedback on the telling of those conflicts I can also give feedback on well it supports the book’s synopsis.
[quote=The Author Guy;3897]Yes, there are lots of short scenes, not sure there are more than before but there are some.
Yes, there is a lot of book, they had to build the melted castle, took them a couple days. There was no melted castle before Lilith gives the instructions to Asmodeus. She told them where to put the place.
[/quote]This is neither a good thing nor a bad thing, but I thought you should know that book 3 felt more like a webnovel than a traditional novel because of the short scenes.
These are my initial thoughts and first impressions of the Alpha release…..
[list][*]There seem to be a lot of short/small scenes in this book compared to the previous books
[*]There seemed to be a lot of “book” between Lilith talking with Asmodeus about a trap and the appearance of the Melted Castle and Melissance
[*]Didn’t really get the scene with Tom and his robe in the library, singing and dancing unless it is going to link up with the chapters that haven’t been released yet
[*]Would like to see more of Tom teaching Tal Gor – like the fire trick via the spirit link
[*]When the AII (Artificial Intelligence Interface) was introduced and it was mentioned that Tom could talk to it and it would talk back…I was expecting see conversations or interactions through the rest of the book…but it never happened.
[*]Jen and the crew of the Nimbus really don’t seem to do anything through the book – Jen seems to only make Gastrope squirm a bit with keeping his story straight..
[*]Tom seems to do a lot of bounce back and forth from Isle of Doom and Mount Doom in the last chapters with only 1 significant thing occurring – the creation of a new D’Orc shaman. Also, is Tom dragging Talarius with him or leaving him at the Isle of Doom???[/list]Yes, there are lots of short scenes, not sure there are more than before but there are some.
Yes, there is a lot of book, they had to build the melted castle, took them a couple days. There was no melted castle before Lilith gives the instructions to Asmodeus. She told them where to put the place.
In the library, Tom is high from Demon Weed, he is doing a “grok”/”zen” thing (trying to be one with the robe) and it plays out, in his mind, to the Who Song Touch Me, Feel Me from the Rock Opera Tommy. In order to be able to shape shift himself into a piece of clothing, he sort of (or so he thinks) has to be “one” with the robe. It’s a very hippie sort of thing.
Cool on the Tal Gor teaching, really needs to do more of that across the board, of course, he is still learning and some of that teaching was extra creepy for him, because he was also channeling some orcus memories
Yes, that was the plan on AII. (and thanks, need to call it that). In point of fact, its voice is Siri, it’s visual appearance is Princess Lei as projected by R2D2 “Help me Obi Wan Kenobe” not sure that I’ve mentioned that. In any event, perhaps more interaction with the AII to further his worries about it.
Yes, Jenn and the crew do not do much in this book, they really are sort of just there until the next book. They will end up reconnecting with Tal Gor and the Doomalogue of Astlan party.
Yes, he is, trying to show he is very busy and getting harried, and trying to learn stuff. Recall, the book so far is only about 14 days long.
As for your last point, that’s the whole plot of the remaining 20%. Tom, Talarius & the Five Sibling representatives on Nysegard along with the Storm Lords.
I could be wrong here, but I think in a couple places you refer to Asmodean fighting the Demi-Urge rather than Sameal. When I reread, I will double check.
The book itself held my attention. Though I will be honest, It read a bit like book 6 of the Wheel of Time, wherin not much happens as we move toward book 7. There is a lot of shifting back and forth in place, a lot of new concepts are introduced, but nothing really happens to advance the plot.
Hmm,
Interesting thought on that. And here I thought more advancement was coming this time than in Book 2.
Of course, a lot of this would be because the last 20% is not there. However, I want more movement in the earlier part as well.
That may shift the length of the book to something longer then. Or maybe I need to do more in earlier segments to highlight what is going on better.
It seems the Nimbus continues to be a drag for now.
[quote=Flakes;3899]The book itself held my attention. Though I will be honest, It read a bit like book 6 of the Wheel of Time, wherin not much happens as we move toward book 7. There is a lot of shifting back and forth in place, a lot of new concepts are introduced, but nothing really happens to advance the plot.[/quote]
Well I’m still less then halfway through the book so far (up to pg 139), but I agree on that from what I’ve read so far. It was interesting but there wasn’t exactly a lot of memorable scenes. If I have to rate it in Amazon, it’ll be 3 stars – just an Okay book. It was slow going with no comical or action scenes to break up the tedium.
Just have to spice it up like in heavenly host beta like when you added the space battle with the lich/dragon attack and the revised ending. Hm, gonna need more of it though. Because in 100+ pages so far, there’s like no hook to make me excited to read.
There seems to be no overall tension. The big picture is set aside for day-to-day lives of rebuilding the Doompire.
* Actually I only think it was called Doompire in bk2. Haven’t seen that in book 3. I get the impression that lots of little things that were lost between 1 & 2 and 2 & 3.
Anyways, regarding tension. Often I have an idea of what the Tom or some of the POVs want. But what do they want to avoid or resolve? The latter is always as clear or it comes way later down the line. I get there is fight coming in Nysegard and a meeting of the Tiernon & Doom sides, but not a whole lot of tension.
For each of the main characters I have to ask myself:
1. What is their main problem that they are facing?
2. How does their problem get worse (and worse)?
3. How their problem is resolved?
4. What are the consequences of failure?So, what is Tom’s main problem? He is facing:
– Increasing responsibility that is unprepared to hand.
– Fearing the loss of his personality.That’s it. The rest doesn’t really stand out or feels like an aside.
What is Hilda’s main problem?
– …? It’s a bit scattered.I’m not 100% sure, but do we even have more POV for non-main characters than main? Our mains are Tom and Hilda right? Because all the others have really small parts or do not seem to be the ones driving the plot forward.
Maybe you can help us out TAG. For book 3 who do you consider to be main characters and what is their tension? Then I can give my impressions on how I felt the book executed things.
Excellent questions, very helpful. I am going to need to think on this to provide some better detail, both for you and myself.
There are some more POV’s but for the most part I do not consider them “major POVs” or protagonists. Secondary protagonists can change a bit from book to book.
Here is what I think the order of importance is for this volume
Protagonist: Tom (always)
Protagonist: Talarius
Protagonist: Tal Gor
Protagonist: Rupert
Protagonist: Vaselle
Protagonist: Hilda (for this moment, she is in sort of a back seat role–she probably needs to be more front and center sooner)
Protagonist: Damien (sitting this book out)
Protagonist: Gastrope’ (sitting this book out so far)
Protagonist: Jenn (sitting this book out so far)
Protagonist: RandolfSecondary POV: Sammael
Secondary POV: Barabus
Secondary POV: Iskerus
Secondary POV: Exador
Secondary POV: Valg Death Cheater
Secondary POV: Ragala-nargoloth
Secondary POV: BessNeutral POV: Lilith/Asmodeus/Sentir Fallon (meaning, mostly not taking anyone’s internal dialogue)
Neutral POV: Tiernon/ToreanLet me know who I am missing if you see anyone who got a POV.
Hmm,
Interesting, I would see that as a bad thing. I get really tired of super short serialized stories.
Perhaps if Book 2 was edited like a TV show, Book 3 has ended up like a Webisode….
This trend does not bode well for book 8….
Yes, something to work/rework on.
Great comments.
There is a multipart thing going on here that causes some of these problems.
Biggest Issue) From the very beginning of volume 1, so many years ago, I wanted to write a book where I couldn’t figure out the end 10% or 20% of the way through. Therefore, I am purposefully taking a circuitous route. However, I don’t want to lose anyone.
Along this line, I would expect that starting with about this book, people would start to get some hints at where it is actually going. Or what it will take to wrap up the story line.
As a rule, I find that books only truly “end” in two possible options: Death or Marriage and from an adventuring point of view, they two are basically the same. No more quests or dungeon diving once you are married and have kids. Too risky. At that point you just try to keep your kids alive until their adventure starts.
In any event, by this book, we should start to see where the final resolution will come from.
Big point, and I think this gets lost with too many characters, Tom does not know where the hell the book is going, or rather his life. He is starting to get a clue that he is playing a starring role in a much bigger game than he ever imagined. He needs to discover his role and why everyone is so bent out of shape about him and his actions.
A lot of things were set in motion during Ragnarok, with multiple parties involved, particularly during “the end” People thought Ragnarok was over, and then in a final strike, a particular god who shows up at the end of this volume, made a move that more decisively ended the battle, after the “truce” had been called.
Ragnarok was supposed to be over. There was a truce. But it wasn’t really over until Orcus was slain and the last of the “other side” (Jotunnkind) were fully beaten.
Now, Tom is here, people are freaking out thinking that Ragnarok is about to restart after 4K years because they fear Orcus is back (presumably with a vengeance).
So…this is increasingly becoming an even longer game story.
I believe it will be about 2 Million words. Roughly 8 books at the current size, maybe a bit more.
The Phoenix Cycle that is discussed in this book is very important. Many people (OK, the D’Orcs) think that Tom is Orcus reborn; Tom of course thinks some mysterious force (the AII???) or something is trying to force him to play that role, even though he knows very well he is not, could not be, Orcus. What has happened just doesn’t fit with the Phoenix Cycle.
So anyway, I need to do more to draw people in. That is probably what you are seeing in terms of lack of “oomph”
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