The history between the Grove and Ennead Gods

Welcome To Astlan Forums The Heavenly Host The history between the Grove and Ennead Gods

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    So I recently reread Heavenly hosts and I was surprised at the hints of the strange and complicated history between the Ennead gods and the denizens of the Grove.

    We are told that the members of the Grove are the various denizens from failed and displaced races that may seem to have created their multi-dimensional land to pool their resources and protect themselves from other ascendant gods.

    This seems to be something that happened before Ragnarok in which the FOE and the FOG did battle and it is implied that the FOE had a strategic victory with the sundering of the Bifrost. This was also a battle that Orcus and his forces seemed to have played a pivotal role in that battle. It is also implied but not stated that it is due to his role in those events that caused Lilith and Samel to unify against him.

    It also seems that the denizens of the Grove while being mainly non-human still consider themselves and hold themselves to be part of the FOG. In fact it was implied but never stated that they were the third power that helped craft Excrathadorus Mortis. This means that when the FOG went against Orcus it was a triumvirate that still needed to secure Lillith as a saboteur in order to assure their victory.

    We also know that this happened about 4000 yrs ago. (I am assuming shortly after Rangnarok which is when the denizens of the Grove were cut off from their former confederates.)

    It is interesting to know that at this time we don’t have any information on what the disposition between the Ennaed Gods and the Etonian gods were at this time.

    This becomes important for any number of reasons.

    1. The Ennaed Gods (most importantly Bastet) retreated to the Abyss but still try to disguise themselves as demons. This could be because of the natural antipathy between god and demon or because of a history between the FOE (especially Lillith and Samel) and the Ennaeds.

    2. While it seems Bastet is in alliance with Exador and Ramses it hasn’t been stated against whom they are plotting. Since they were originally cast as three arch-demons I am assuming that Exador and Ramses are part of this cabal to somehow take power over demons and the Abyss. Bastet seems to be using this as a plot in a scheme to overthrow the Etonian gods.

    3. It has been implied that the gods are gods because they hold a sphere of power in the “outer realms” that allow them to be all powerful. In fact I can deduce that it was Orcus crafting Mt. Doom allowing him to hold a similar power in the Abyss itself where the gods are sundered from their own wellspring that caused him to be targeted. The question becomes will Bastet see Tom seizing Orcus’s power as sneaky or an upstart seizing power against the rules of “gods”.

    We also don’t know how the Ennaed gods came down in the wars between the FOG and the FOE against Orcus. Did the help the Etonians and then were betrayed or were they neutral parties who were then declared evil for not helping.

    Then we find out that 2000 yrs ago is when Bast, Anubis and the Ennaeds were cast out of their heavenly realm and declared to be false gods.

    We also found out that they had asked and were denied the help of the citizens of the Grove which means that either the Grove denizens didn’t feel that they were strong enough to stand up against the Etonians or that their hidden alliance from the time of Orcus could still be in effect between the Etonians and the Grove.

    I would love to see what the other members think about just what the author might have in store for us from the annals of history he has devised.


    That’s a pretty good synopsis.

    I will impart a few “clarifications” however. Pardon me, if I accidentally reveal information that is in Book 3…the dividing line of 2/3 was a bit fuzzy and moved around.

    Most everything here, I have said somewhere before (albeit most likely in the beta for book 2) So beware of accidental spoilers. Consider the following as sort of pre-beta info. It’s not so much plot as clarifying underlying issues.

    Technically, the Nyjyr Ennead are on Uropia, the closer of the two moons. They purposefully shutdown their outer planes to save energy. They have only been in the Abyss for the last 150 years (when Tizzy showed up with cookies). This is one of their multiple plans to regain power. (Reggie is another) She is posing as a demon to get her hands on “The book” and playing Exador and Ramses off each other. Of course, each of them is doing the same as well. Not a trustworthy lot.

    Yes, there is quite a bit of crossover between the Gods of the Grove and the Nyjyr Ennead. However, that’s not necessarily the same as the Ennaad and the denizens of the grove.

    The Grove is a safe haven for people/races persecuted on other planes; think of it as sort of an underground railroad to other planes. Yes, when the other worlds the Grove rescued people were cut off (Earth) is somewhat coincident to Ragnarok, but not that simple.

    Ragnarok essentially precipitated the eventual disconnection, by locking most of the Northern European deities out of Earth This gave the Demi-Urge a big opening.

    The closure came because the Demi-Urge was in the process of slaughtering non-humans on Earth and hoovering up all the mana. They got out who they could, and eventually it was just too much work to keep doorways open. So for example, Merlin and Arthur were some of the last to escape.

    It wasn’t just the snakes leaving Ireland.

    They have representatives of multiple races, not all of whom always get along: Case in point the Los Alfar and the Modgriensofarthgonosefren who are, technically jotunkind. So when the FOG decides that other jotunkind are evil, the Modgriensofarthgonosefren get uneasy, and one cannot assume their loyalty.

    In particular, a battle between Orcs and Elves is dicey for them and their own internal stability. While not allies of the Orcs, they are not enemies per se either. So, if the alfar start arming for war against orcs, without true provocation, the dwarves will not be happy and likely escalate. This is was Trevin is concerned about; a war between elves and dwarves would be very very bad, considering both races crew their cloudships and defenses.

    Yes, the grove predates Ragnarok.

    Ragnarok was big on multiple planes, far beyond even the localverse, given that Earth was involved. In the appendices/library when it talks about war between pantheons, that’s probably what the author was talking about.

    Ragnarok lasted for very very long time. Around a thousand years or so, depending on which battles you include. It manifested itself in many ways on different planes. There were, to say the least, a buttload of battlefields in the war. As we will see, the “Desolation” of Ferundy and Cal Crestor is tied to it; and this was a huge war between orcs and elves.


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