Alpha0 – The Nyjyr Ennead & God pools

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    i think either limbo or purgatory is in the way.

    the abyss is 2 planes down.


    Yeah sounds like an error to me
    It’s been established that all types of links can’t function between abyss and outer planes (e.g Tierhallon). Continuity wise having moved to the moon they should still have access to god pool, unless the god pool is still on outer plane (which doesn’t sound right).


    Well, the accords seem to be between the conclave and the Courts. Any organization not of the courts isn’t really a signatory so… Tom could (in theory) go to the Outer Planes w/o being in violation. Not that the gods would care.

    Sentir Fallon however is a violator. He went to the Abyss w/o permission when he hid the rod and when he went to talk to Lilith. Not that she’ll turn him in unless it gives her an advantage.


    The appendix implies that god can access godpools from any place that is “attached” to the material planes. However, the Abyss is not attached so the godpools become inaccessible.


    Yes, for the folks at the Outpost

    1) If their godpools or pantheon pools are on the prime material plane, they should be able to access them from the Abyss.
    2) if their godpools or pantheon pools are in the Outer Planes, then they could not access them in the Abyss

    Certainly all the other gods have their godpools in the Outer Planes, the question is, do the Nyjyr Ennead have their pools on the moon or in the Outer Planes?

    Of course, we don’t actually know what a god pool nor a pantheon pool is. We assume it is a super powered manapool, but those have very real limits particularly in that they aren’t shareable for the most part. It’s not even safe for an individual to have links to multiple mana pools at the same time. You have to get rather tricky to do this for fear of feedback/crosstalk affects. Yet the gods seem to have done this, somehow, they can relay mana from their personal god pool to their clerics, and they can allow their avatars access to these pools to dispense to clerics…somehow

    The inability/difficulty in linking multiple mana pools (not a problem for god/pantheon pools and magic items apparently) is a big part of the “magineering” done in creating Doom in the first place. Technically, whatever is being done to create Doom’s batteries seems, at initial inspection, to violate what wizards know about mana pools. You shouldn’t be able to hook a bunch of them together. So something is different about Doom.

    God pools and pantheon pools do not appear to have these limits either. So what and where are they? How are they different than Doom’s batteries?

    If they are on the outer planes, why isn’t someone guarding them? Can they be stolen? Damaged? That can certainly happen to a regular mana pool.

    Note, that if Tom was to travel to the Outer Planes, he would not/should not/have access to Doom’s power supply.

    However, he would have access to the power supply of a Doomalogue located on material planes. Which in turn, could draw from Doom. Think of it as a relay.


    Back to the Outpost….

    Even if the Nyjyr Ennead God Pools and Pantheon Pools are in the Outer Planes (and it [b][i]is[/i][/b] something like that), why could they not build a relay system on the moon(s) for it? So they could get the power to the Abyss?

    Clearly if Phaestus and Volund built Doomalogues, which could relay power to Orcus in the Outer Planes (if need be); Phaestus could build such a relay station for his fellow Nyjyr Ennead.

    Or so one would certainly think.

    So why wouldn’t he?


    Bess etal are signatories and members of the Conclave. They are in violation, but no one knows they are in violation.

    If they had access to a god pool and accessed it, that might tip someone off. You don’t really want to “glow too much” to demon sight.

    She is pretending to be an arch demon so is shielding as it is. The god pool would be risky, assuming they could figure out a way to connect to it via open portal etc.

    The portal opened by the Inferno was small and local, just like all the little portals opened by demons that go in and out that way (think the carpet trio at the end of book 1/begining of book 2)

    Links, in this case mana links, to gods are surprisingly path like. Meaning they aren’t just automatic, they have to find their way, hence people “follow links” they really are like tether lines.

    So presumably, after being broken, links are dangling and eventually wither. If you are gone long enough, you have to re-establish/recreate the link because the old one will die away. If you are gone a short while and come back to the same place, you may be able to reattach to the same link (or maybe it will happen automatically)

    For gods and such, this isn’t that be a deal. They just reattach to their god pool when exiting. Clerics, gone long enough, would need to pray and maybe at some point reconsecrate or do something to reconnect. Note that when Talarius got to Nysegard, he had to pray to saints to reconnect and let them find him. It did not just happen.

    If you are a computer junky think of them as VPN tunnels. They are encrypted tunnels/paths/links for communicating information and transferring mana. If you break the tunnel (say your Internet connection goes down) you have to re-initiate the tunnel. In fact if “auto ping” isn’t setup on a VPN tunnel, it will time out and stop trying to connect to the other side. So the tunnel will not automatically come back up, even if Internet is restored. It only comes back after you try to “ping” the other side of the tunnel. Which is why sometimes you tell your FW to “ping” an IP address on the other side, this keeps the tunnel alive even if there is no other traffic.

    I would argue that using this analogy. If you get back to where your link was (same world etc) the act of pinging/praying should be enough to get the two dangling ends of the link to connect, unless it’s been a very long time. If it’s been a very long time and the link has withered away, you would need to reconsecrate/re-ordain/re-instate the link in a more advanced ceremony. “I.e. rebuild/re-enter the tunnel configuration.”


    Could it be that wouldn’t build such a relay because it would go against the Accord? Perhaps the demons in the Abyss would notice that theres a bunch of highly refined mana coming in and attempt to tamper with the stream.


    Interesting question, some answers to this may be forthcoming at the end…of volume iii

    One key point to keep in mind is that Talarius is not a priest so he doesn’t really have the same link. They (KR) are consecrated to Tiernon, so he does have some mana channeling capabilities, just not full priestly links. They are mainly spells related to physical combat/undead protection. Think “paladin” even though he is “not a paladin damn it”

    It is not clear what would happen if he went back to Mount Doom, but presumably, yes the link would still be viable, unless Volund and Phaestus were doing something to block non-Tom/Orcus links.

    To be honest, at this point, I do not know if they are. Actually, strike that, I can say I do know now that I think about it. 🙂

    Given that they had these Doomalogues for thousands of years, this question was presumably resolved at some point because, it could be a weak point. But maybe not…..

    You can certainly bet that the regular defenses of Doom, now that they are back, are going to be blocking links to other places in the Abyss. They would absolutely have taken precautions to keep Lilith etal from planting spies with links.

    However, Lilith somehow got into Doom anyway despite this. My guess is that she did this through Etterdam (most likely) or a Doomalogue, because they did not shield for this properly on the Doomalogue links. So that’s why I “probably” do know the answer to this. She sent someone in through a Doomalogue and followed the link.—I think Talarius will need to reveal this information accidentally to the folks of Doom.

    What I know, but is not in the book yet is that the Etterdam Doomalogue (where Ragala-nargoloth is) was severely damaged when Orcus died. That was where the big gum-up was. This plays directly to the Dark Apostle and how they managed to kill Orcus. I am working right now to bring this stuff forward more obvious, in large part because you guys are helping me focus on the logic of all of this.

    Anyway the Etterdamn Doomalogue is why I am including Ragala-nargoloth stuff (booty call etc) because that Doomalogue is definitely compromised to this day. Ragala-nargoloth is going to have to do some house cleaning.


    So now that Talarius has reestablished his connection he could just walk back into Mount Doom and keep his connection until such a time as the Nysegard portal is closed.

    Hm, if a person traverses two portals such as Astlan -> Abyss -> Nysegard without closing any of them would the godpool connection in Nysegard remain once the Astlan portal is closed?


    And by the by or however that is spelled.

    This link connection business is very critical to the whole Dark Apostle thing. I don’t really bring hir up until later in the alpha-0, but in alpha-1 I am bringing up the Dark Apostle sooner to answer some questions in advance of what happened on Etterdam and what is going to happen at the end of AoD.

    This is where Exador comes in, trying to recreate the work of the Dark Apostle for the Storm Lords.

    PS I (and the characters) tend to refer to the Dark Apostle as an ‘it’ or ‘hir’ by and large most liches are sexless (they are literally frigid) but many stick to their old mortal gender. No one (that is talking about the DA) knows what the original gender of the DA was. Presumably some of the Storm Lords do, but they haven’t been talking about the DA in the book.


    I re-read the Inferno’s entry to the Abyss. As long as a portal to Midgard is open it seems that the godpool is accessible by those in the Abyss. So it would seem that you could establish a 2-way portal, aka what the Doomalouges do, and have power be accessible. It doesn’t seem to have anything to do with special construction of Mount Doom. Just need to establish a permanent portal.

    So… when Tom opened the portal to Nysegard why didn’t the godpool become re-accessible to the priests of Tiernon aboard the Inferno?


    It seems that the outpost is “illegal” but the gods in demon bodies appear to be demons to normal demons and they really aren’t that concerned with anything demon related but their own plans. The senior gods might have made a pact with the high level demons, but that’s unlikely.
    Also the god pool sounded like, to be a god pool, would have to be on the outerplanes. but they are supposed to have links to avatars who collect mana from their followers right? So couldn’t they use that mana directly, as opposed to sending it to the “mana pool in the sky”

    And , based on various chapters with lilith as the pov, she didn’t recognize “Bess” while having conversations about Exador and Ramses with the bard in book.


    That is probably at least half of it.

    Their presence in the Abyss certainly violates the accord. The Outpost is very much “illegal” by the accord. If anyone asks Phaestus, that would be the answer.

    Hephaestus working for Orcus or Tommus is technically legal because he was “invited” in by Orcus (and presumably Tommus/habit/just assumed the invitation was there).

    [SPOILER]There is, however, another reason. The Accord also keeps demons (Demon Princes) from going to the outer plane. Much of the Accord is backed by the idea that you can’t do a relay, that such technology/magic does not exist. So Gods are at a disadvantage in the Abyss and Demon Princes in the Outer Planes (assuming they had a big manapool in the Abyss). Of course, the gods also believe (rightly) that demons don’t have anything called Demon Pools (except that Orcus does)

    [SPOILER]Net has pretty much figured out that the Doomalogues can be used as relays, that that is what they are. Realize that it took the Courts of Chaos a very long time to realize that Orcus was creating mana in the Abyss with Mount Doom. Very few people outside the Courts would know this, certainly no gods would have known this. Therefore, they would not suspect that the Doomalogues are also making mana and are super linked to Mount Doom. They assume they are just normal temples. [SPOILER]They do not see them as logistical support for an invasion of the Outer Planes.[/SPOILER]

    [SPOILER][SPOILER][SPOILER][SPOILER]As you will see, he also believes that the Tartarvardenennead are committed atheists who want to overthrow the Godhead and imprison all the gods in Tartarus.[/SPOILER][/SPOILER][/SPOILER][/SPOILER]



    Great discussion…restating this, this way, reminded me of info that I need to give out in the section I am literally in the middle of writing.

    There are so many pieces moving around that it is often very difficult to remember when to reveal certain pieces of information.

    [SPOILER]Doing a scene with Ne’t and Aodh (for insertion earlier). Ne’t knows all about this question–or rather he knows/suspects what the Doomalogues could be used for. And that’s a major part of why he is so “hell bent” on eliminating Orcus and Doom forever.[/SPOILER]

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