Orcus-Concord of Consiliation
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Doesn’t the Phoenix cycle require a god to guide it? Like reincarnation? Who would guide Lillith and Sammael in re-birthing with pantheons they would go as a group leaving one then when they all rebirth the one that hasn’t yet would rebirth guided by the rest but with non pantheon gods such as Lillith and Sammael how would they do it? I expect that’s why you have gone insane is because you have no one to guide your Phoenix cycle so you haven’t reset and have to many memory’s.
No, that’s prophecies that need a god, or a shepherd or something.
No one knows how the PC works, except, of course, the gods.
However, given that gods tend to be extremely paranoid and have very few true friends, I can’t see any of them putting themselves at the mercy of one of their fellow scheming narcissistic friends. A wife, or close family member perhaps, but there are plenty of gods who trust such individuals even less.
If I were to guess, most gods that choose the timing of their PC set things up in advance. Only if it’s unplanned might you need assistance from someone else.
Actually, there is a rather enlightening, if not clearly obvious, discussion of the PC in book 4 with Tom and an old friend of mine, who finally shows up. Apparently, we was on a very long journey, to the west, or something.
Since Orcus is a God and theoretically a Demon no idea how a god became a demon but thats besides the point. Isn’t Orcus unwelcome in both the Abyss and Outer Realms? How did he go to a wedding that i’m guessing was in the outer realms and why hasn’t anyone that knows hes a god just told Lillith and Sammel that hes a god so they will have to deal with him together?
Orcus became a demon by declining to join a Pantheon, and setting up shop in the Abyss. Very much like how Bestat “became” an Arch-demon by making a Demon body for herself. Being a demon isn’t an issue for him, because as he doesn’t maintain a God pool or belong to a pantheon he isn’t prevented from using them…. Doom serves as both for him.
He was able to attend the wedding, because he was invited. Remember Doom isn’t a signatory of the Concords of Conciliation. He slips through the cracks that way, because he didn’t agree not to enter the outer planes. If he was a signatory, he wouldn’t be able to go without breaking his word.
As for Lilith and Sammael, pretty sure even if Sam knew that Orcus was a god he still wouldn’t work with Lilith. He was never on bad terms with Doom, and anything that hurts her is god for Sam. It would make Lilith shit herself no doubt, just like the realization he controls Tartarus (and was dead for 4000 years) would frighten any sane being.
Ultimately though, other than the whole phoenix cycle thing his being a god is mostly not significant. He doesn’t have a god pool or a pantheon pool, so without Doom he would be more or less on par with the Demon Princes. Especially since he doesn’t do any normal god duties… i.e. afterlife and that jazz. He does blur the line with creating D’Orcs. That the Demon Princes don’t try to make more demons isn’t because they can’t. They choose not to… probably because most of them never managed to find a ready pool of people that would line up to become demons, or they simply don’t care enough about events outside the Abyss. (Mostly the later imo, Lilith doesn’t seem to give a damn about anything except the Abyss)
[quote=Rakshasa;7320] Orcus became a demon by declining to join a Pantheon, and setting up shop in the Abyss. Very much like how Bestat “became” an Arch-demon by making a Demon body for herself. Being a demon isn’t an issue for him, because as he doesn’t maintain a God pool or belong to a pantheon he isn’t prevented from using them…. Doom serves as both for him.
He was able to attend the wedding, because he was invited. Remember Doom isn’t a signatory of the Concords of Conciliation. He slips through the cracks that way, because he didn’t agree not to enter the outer planes. If he was a signatory, he wouldn’t be able to go without breaking his word.
As for Lilith and Sammael, pretty sure even if Sam knew that Orcus was a god he still wouldn’t work with Lilith. He was never on bad terms with Doom, and anything that hurts her is god for Sam. It would make Lilith shit herself no doubt, just like the realization he controls Tartarus (and was dead for 4000 years) would frighten any sane being.
Ultimately though, other than the whole phoenix cycle thing his being a god is mostly not significant. He doesn’t have a god pool or a pantheon pool, so without Doom he would be more or less on par with the Demon Princes. Especially since he doesn’t do any normal god duties… i.e. afterlife and that jazz. He does blur the line with creating D’Orcs. That the Demon Princes don’t try to make more demons isn’t because they can’t. They choose not to… probably because most of them never managed to find a ready pool of people that would line up to become demons, or they simply don’t care enough about events outside the Abyss. (Mostly the later imo, Lilith doesn’t seem to give a damn about anything except the Abyss)[/quote]
That makes since however if its all about incarnating as a demon why didn’t one of the demons in Freehold show up in the mirror if Bastet is incarnated as a Demon then she Ramzy and Exador are the 3 Arc Demons and we know that Rupert shows up as a low level Greater demon in the mirror there was 2 strong arc demons 1 weak arc demon and one weak greater demon there is one missing I thought it was Bastet but then later Tizzy explained that she was incarnated as a real demon even if she smelled like marzapan so then who is missing in the Demon scan? So its again an issue of either Incarnated gods don’t show up as demons on the scan and if that’s true then wouldn’t Tom not show up because he is a Reincarnated God? Also all demons are under the Concord of Consiliation according to what I understand weather mount doom signed or not him being in the abyss doesn’t break the balance because as a god he didn’t sign but as a demon going to the wedding and being a demon does actually go against it and would require punishment from the demon signatory’s. Maybe i’m over thinking this
That mirror reall does vex people. I think there have been more discussions on these forums about that mirror than any other topic.
By and large, I would agree with Rakshasha’s explaination. In fact, his comment about Sammael is pretty much idential to a comment Sammael makes in Book 4.
I think the thing you have to remember about Lilith and Sammael is that they are pretty much in the same boat as Orcus. They are extremely old, and have definitely been around long enough that they’ve probably Phoenix Cycled many times–they just aren’t going to be discussing such things in public. Remember, they claim to be part of the original creation of the multiverse.
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