Canonization
- This topic has 14 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
The Doom Engine was very explicitly built to avoid the need for “the god trap”
At the end of the day, the biggest difference between a Demon Prince and a god is the worshipers and god pools. Demon Princes, like gods (and very senior Avatars), Phoenix Cycle. That is what makes a demon prince a “prince” they’ve figured out and successfully Phoenixed Cycled.
[SPOILER]We find out in Book 4 that both Beragamos and Sentir Fallon have cycled[/SPOILER]
Orcus wanted to have his cake and eat it too, which seemed quite reasonable to the rest of us. He’d done the god game in previous cycles and wasn’t thrilled with it.
During the Doompire, getting recruits for D’Orcing was not a problem. Basically any orcs that were ‘sworn to Orcus’ (which, yes sounds like a religious thing–but with no mana commitment–more like a reverence thing) were on the list to get D’Orced if they were found worthy.
So, in some ways, it was like the advance sign up for Beta Demons. They put their name down to be on the list to be recruited when the positions opened up. Although, Beta Demons are open to everyone, whereas D’Orcing was only the best.
Sounds prone to failure, especially in an battle. How durable are those anima jars?
Hopefully Orcus gets over his hangups in his Tommus incarnation and he automates the process.Will we see any after-death D’orcinations in the upcoming books? or canonizations of saints? It would be interesting to see the differences in the different processes. Plus there are plenty of minor characters taking part in major battles, that can die heroically and get ascended/descended. Tom really needs more D’orcs and he has parties of orcs running around Midgard. The best part is that it wouldn’t be too sad, because even though a character would be dying, they would basically just be getting a power boost. Or one of the thousands of Shield members who fought in Nysegard. There were plenty of heroic deaths there, as well as a surplus of saints around to protect their animus from the predations of the unlife. That was one of the big issues with Nysegard, that they were losing more saints than they were gaining, there’s no way that they wouldn’t take advantage of this chance to get a few new saints.
How does the process even work? Does it start during their death, or is there a judgement after their reception to Tierhallen? What about D’orcing? Do they just summon the spirits of the dead orcs as D’orcs before they fade, or do the shamans have to do something else first? Or is there a process that needs to be done to prep the orcs before their deaths, like how the five sibling followers have links to their saints?
There are so many possibilities, when you include all the groups that do this, that I don’t have the space on the disk to write it all up.
Traditional D’Orcing is identical to what happened in Book 3, the most (extremely) common exception being that we weren’t planning on that D’Orc dying so weren’t ready. In that case, with really good candidates, we generally try to arrange have a Shaman to be standing by with an animajar (or two) to capture his/her (and the warg’s) soul, as needed.
But that’s us, can’t really speak for other groups. Animajars are very useful though, very useful!
I forgot about the D’wargs. That does explain why there are so many of them at Doom when the D’orcs don’t really need them.
How are anima jars made? Are they just gems enchanted to protect animus, or is it more complicated than that?So was it SOP for Orcus’s shamans back in the day to always carry some anima-jars around just in case? Or was it a special occasion thing, where a great warrior was chosen, and then his shaman would be given an anima-jar in case he died early?
The orcs don’t want an afterlife, they are shamanistic. When they die, they join their ancestors and nature. The D’orcs where a big change for them.
Plus, there’s not really a way to automate the process. It took a lot of mana and work for the D’orc he made. Maybe, if he completely changed everything he stood for and created a god pool and and outer realm, he could have the same set up as the other gods, but why would he do that? He has Doom to give him mana, and the orcs aren’t big on gods.Speaking of automation, does Tom need to be part of the D’orcing, or can someone with a link to him accept the link on his behalf, and have it act like the different levels of saints and archons? Obviously it would be kind of a slight to the first D’orc to not have Tom accept them, but if the commanders started accepting their own recruits, and the links all led upstream to Tom, that wouldn’t be too different.
[quote=Bradyman;7804]The orcs don’t want an afterlife, they are shamanistic. When they die, they join their ancestors and nature. The D’orcs where a big change for them. [/Quote]
Their belive System is shamanistic, yes. That they WANT to permanently die on dead, is open to discussion.[Quote]Plus, there’s not really a way to automate the process. [/Quote]
Actually, there is text evidence (and it’s really clear), the only reason the did not automate the D’Orcing was because they did not want to get into the God-Business.
They have the knowhow.[quote=Korwin;7807][quote=Bradyman;7804]The orcs don’t want an afterlife, they are shamanistic. When they die, they join their ancestors and nature. The D’orcs where a big change for them. [/Quote]
Their belive System is shamanistic, yes. That they WANT to permanently die on dead, is open to discussion.[Quote]Plus, there’s not really a way to automate the process. [/Quote]
Actually, there is text evidence (and it’s really clear), the only reason the did not automate the D’Orcing was because they did not want to get into the God-Business.
They have the knowhow.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure that part of their shamanistic belief was rejoining nature. I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that there was a discussion about how it was a little controversial when they first made the D’orcs, since they were immortal.
They don’t want to D’orc everyone. They have a process to give them an afterlife, yes, and like you said, they don’t want to get into the god business. Turning them all into D’orcs would be like every follower of Tiernon becoming a saint. Most just go to their version of heaven. With 666 different doomologues, assuming each was on a planet with a population of orcs, they would need to make thousands or millions of D’orcs a day. Thats just too many, they would run out of room. Sure it might be possible to automate that, but they would never do it for the same reason the gods dont automate a process to turn all their followers into saints.
Sure, they could maybe automate a process to D’orc orcs that meet certain criteria, but that wouldn’t be that much different from what they do now. Plus it would cheapen it for the new D’orcs that aren’t personally called by Tom. There’s a big difference between your god choosing you to fight with him, and a machine giving you powers.See (a little) more an Anima Jars [url=http://www.astlan.net/Home/CouncilofWizardryLibrary/ArcaneDevicesandMagicItems/ManaPoolsandAnimaJars.aspx]in the library[/url]
For a shaman, animajars are not uncommon, given that they work with spirits all the time.
But generally, there are those on the lookout for great warriors heading into battle so there was usually someone around paying attention.
And, even if you missed the moment of death, a strong shaman could summon the spirit back if they get there soon enough, say within a few hours to a day or maybe more depending on the individual. Obviously the sooner the better, and best is not dead yet, but mortally wounded. But you work with what you got.
As they say, you go into the afterlife with the Soul you have, not the Soul you want. I.e. ready or not to die, you die when you die and your current state of “grace” determines what happens to you.
Yes, the god business means providing an afterlife and other benefits in exchange for mana and other sacrifices/behavior.
We definitely don’t want to allow everyone to become a D’Orc. Not everyone can handle it. You really don’t want to be stuck in a volcano with a bunch of depressed suicidal immortals. Although I guess that was what was going on at Mount Doom while things were shut down.
By talking about automating the process, I was not talking about d’Orcing everyone (or against the will of the Orc in question).
I imagine it would be hard to recover the souls of on orcish last stand. I’m pretty shure there would bea) worthy Orcs there
b) the ones who killed them, would not look and do nothing if an Shaman came by to get their souls for d’Orcing.I imagine an Orc does something worthy, he get’s the offer:
After you die, do you want to become an d’Orc?
If yes, his Soul gets linked to the d’Orcing-Machine, which d’Orcs him after he dies.
Even/Especially if nobody is around to do it.[Quote]Yes, the god business means providing an afterlife and other benefits in exchange for mana and other sacrifices/behavior.[/Quote]Well Tommus does not need the mana, so could in theory give an better deal.
[quote=Tizzy;7815]So, in some ways, it was like the advance sign up for Beta Demons. They put their name down to be on the list to be recruited when the positions opened up. Although, Beta Demons are open to everyone, whereas D’Orcing was only the best.[/quote]
Hold on a second. I think you might have gotten something confused [-x
I am pretty shure, the Beta Demons are firstly Alpha Demons and much more elite than those D’Orcs who mostly died of in the wait for Orcus Rebirth, wheras the Alpha Demons keep the faith and if they die off before the next book it will have totaly understandably biological reasons (Age), nothing so pesky as losing faith and stopping regenerating…
:-” o:)
Well, I am not sure exactly what T-A-G is doing with beta demons, but was pretty sure that once you click on his link, you are slain where you sit, your soul sucked into a beta demon body,your astral cord severed, you are then put in a deep dark hole with tiny print manuscripts and a very small pencil to use to mark things up.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.